Youre the captain

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
Alright you decide and live with it.

NY to San Juan or somewhere in the DR (who cares) over the WATRS on L455. Its summer, weather to the west clogging up 454 and 453. South of you 100miles its looking like the north south line is expanding east west too. Satcom is out so youre rocking HF. Homeboys in front of you bug out on 123.45 and 121.5. its clear a few others are doing the same thing, selcal from NY oceanic theres a new TP thats gonna suck butt. Gonna be a mad rush to TXKF and you aint gonna be first. Big hole exclusive to your position thatll get you going west if you want it, KORF is only 13 minutes longer than Bermuda.

You like Burmuda or you gonna take a shot at KORF?

What if an engine failed right then all others being equal? (Obviously gas is fine for all examples)

You sighted a sea dragon, Big Foot walking on water, a real Jack-a-loupe... And the FO goes incap from the excitement.

I was surprised at some of the responses but i have to say I was ok with most of the not so dogmatic ones.
 
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arkflyr

Well-Known Member
I’d go to ORF, unless you did lose an engine than your emergency is going to make you first in line for TXKF.

I say ORF all else being equal because I spent a lot of time flying in and out of Bermuda, for a while I was even flying a Bermudian registered airplane. TXKF is only one runway you say it is going to get busy there, half the time their radar isn’t working (at least back in 2013-16) so plan on holding and that 13 minutes of gas is going to get used up fast.

ORF has a lot more runways around it also in a pinch.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Alright you decide and live with it.

NY to San Juan or somewhere in the DR (who cares) over the WATRS on L455. Its summer, weather to the west clogging up 454 and 453. South of you 100miles its looking like the north south line is expanding east west too. Satcom is out so youre rocking HF. Homeboys in front of you bug out on 123.45 and 121.5. its clear a few others are doing the same thing, selcal from NY oceanic theres a new TP thats gonna suck butt. Gonna be a mad rush to TXKF and you aint gonna be first. Big hole exclusive to your position thatll get you going west if you want it, KORF is only 13 minutes longer than Bermuda.

You like Burmuda or you gonna take a shot at KORF?

What if an engine failed right then all others being equal? (Obviously gas is fine for all examples)

You sighted a sea dragon, Big Foot walking on water, a real Jack-a-loupe... And the FO goes incap from the excitement.

I was surprised at some of the responses but i have to say I was ok with most of the not so dogmatic ones.


Aren't you at Delta? Push it straight through

 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
Unlikely scenario. I’ve done my fair share of flying to SJU and practically lived in the DR for 3 years...if weather That severe is going to occur they don’t put that many planes on those routes. i guess it could happen but I never saw a mass of diversions towards Bermuda.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
Unlikely scenario. I’ve done my fair share of flying to SJU and practically lived in the DR for 3 years...if weather That severe is going to occur they don’t put that many planes on those routes. i guess it could happen but I never saw a mass of diversions towards Bermuda.
It was really more about the number of guys that just lemme know theyre going to KORF. If we had an issue and capt wants to goto orf im not gonna cry about it, but the company is gonna have some questions.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
What questions would the company have?
Well, for one, why didnt you do what we teach and beat practice.

Ioe we get taught to mind etp points even though were not really method two or etops. Checkairmen tell you bermuda is suitable, many other captains just laugh and say "nah, were going to korf". Even further south a couple have said "if im going as far as MYNN im just going to MIA.

So i kinda pick their brain, if Korf waa 10 min further? What if 15? What if 20? Somewhere in between 10 and 20 guys change their mind a little on a standard engine out diversion (go back to the company way).

I dont mind running the circles with etp points but i didnt do real crossings in the atlantic or pacific so i dont get put off by the procedure. It seems like theres a lot of "YGBSM" about all the dumb lines we draw...which i get it, we are running half measures for procedures we're not doing. Its not the weirdest thing we do here.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
Well, for one, why didnt you do what we teach and beat practice.

Ioe we get taught to mind etp points even though were not really method two or etops. Checkairmen tell you bermuda is suitable, many other captains just laugh and say "nah, were going to korf". Even further south a couple have said "if im going as far as MYNN im just going to MIA.

So i kinda pick their brain, if Korf waa 10 min further? What if 15? What if 20? Somewhere in between 10 and 20 guys change their mind a little on a standard engine out diversion (go back to the company way).

I dont mind running the circles with etp points but i didnt do real crossings in the atlantic or pacific so i dont get put off by the procedure. It seems like theres a lot of "YGBSM" about all the dumb lines we draw...which i get it, we are running half measures for procedures we're not doing. Its not the weirdest thing we do here.
If it makes you feel better we hardly discuss the ETPS and don’t draw a thing.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
If it makes you feel better we hardly discuss the ETPS and don’t draw a thing.
We didnt either, before my time, but in the meantime its not my plane so i do what the company wants if it doesnt blah blah blah.

I dont see Bermuda being busy or dead as a threat, nor do i treat the single pavement that way either. I was surprised how many pilots do. I dont think 5 extra minutes is gonna kill me but we start flying an extra 20and im gonna ask out loud wtf we doing here boss. I was curious where everyone elses level of comfort was.

I understand why this part of the forum is mostly dead every time i post in here
 

Boris Badenov

Someone should definitely do *something*, Captain!
If I'm following this correctly, the primary concern (for those who have posted) is extra time on one spinner. If you have have a multi-modal failure which is eventually going to kill the other engine (or a single-point failure which will affect both engines, say fuel), #2 is almost certainly going to die long before you get anywhere near any airport and you'll be swimming. If it's a single-point, non-fuel failure of one engine, the other one is liable to run until Jebus comes again, witness the whole certification of ETOPS in the first place. If I were anywhere near land and possible rescue, I'd head that way. If I was waaaaaaay out over the great unknown, I'd try to stay out of the weather and go where they had lots of ARFF, comfy hotels, and a bar. Because I'll need a drink.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
If I'm following this correctly, the primary concern (for those who have posted) is extra time on one spinner. If you have have a multi-modal failure which is eventually going to kill the other engine (or a single-point failure which will affect both engines, say fuel), #2 is almost certainly going to die long before you get anywhere near any airport and you'll be swimming. If it's a single-point, non-fuel failure of one engine, the other one is liable to run until Jebus comes again, witness the whole certification of ETOPS in the first place. If I were anywhere near land and possible rescue, I'd head that way. If I was waaaaaaay out over the great unknown, I'd try to stay out of the weather and go where they had lots of ARFF, comfy hotels, and a bar. Because I'll need a drink.
Agree with some of that, again at my little shop i was surprised how many people saw single piece of pavement surrounded by water all sides for 600miles or more AS the threat. Didnt know if i was being weird seeing that as a haven.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
Agree with some of that, again at my little shop i was surprised how many people saw single piece of pavement surrounded by water all sides for 600miles or more AS the threat. Didnt know if i was being weird seeing that as a haven.
There's a good bunch of ETOPS alternates out there that are a single piece of pavement with considerably worse weather then Bermuda and not a bar for 900 miles. The guys at your shop need to put on their big boy pants and do what they are trained to do.

Even though we're not ETOPS, it's been interesting to think about out Alternates sometimes in the middle of the Pacific, more in relation to a fire. 90 minutes at .925 from CDB, 125 from HNL. Probably dead either way, but I'll take the 65kt crosswind with 1000RVR over the warm tropical location because it's 35 minutes closer. At some point the closest is UHPP, PASY, PMDY none of which are going to be a cake walk.
 
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