Will we stop commercial flying?

Ozelot

Frozen Tundra TRACON
Is there actually any sort of formal plan on the books in case that became necessary?
There's a book at work, about who does what if ZMP were to go down. As an example, it talks about ZAU putting guys on specific routes, 10 minutes in trail, and to contact ZLC over DIK VOR. It has a bunch of routes and comm transfer points. I believe the spattering of approach controls are involved too, like our airspace is supposed to expand laterally and vertically. It's been a long time since I looked at it, and I doubt anyone knows it's there. It's on a shelf in the tracon next to other various orders, with 2 inches of dust on it.
 
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MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Is there actually any sort of formal plan on the books in case that became necessary?
i know the ability exists equipment-wise to accomplish an air control mission such as this, but what kind of agreements or actual plans may be in effect for such a contingency, I’m not exactly sure.

As NE was referring to in his post, the primary job of these planes, and the GCI (Ground Control Intercept) controllers that crew them, is to bring airplanes together for intercept purposes; not necessarily the job of keeping airplanes separated (like the opening scene of TopGun, the ship radar controller they show is a GCI controller). However, with FAA controllers onboard, the equipment exists to be able to perform an air control mission....I would think at least an ARTCC job.....enroute monitoring/separation and the like. Could have a joint FAA crew of controllers and USAF radar technicians for the specific equipment, or maybe something similar.

That unfortunately is the extent of my knowledge on any specifics.
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
Transferring the radar feeds and radar maps from ZNY to another facility could be done in a day. All contingency plans are probably based around on their being a technical issue or a loss of the physical building and rely on (like the ZAU fire) controllers from that facility just working in a different building(s). But that’s not necessarily viable with a contagious disease unless you’re going to be able to test those controllers before sending them elsewhere, and with the diseases spread even that is only a short term solution. Substituting the equipment is easy, the personnel not so much. I honestly think the FAA is counting on air travel stopping before air traffic control.
 
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killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
I did a touch and go once. I was doing my usual one day, talk to Potomac after filing my SFRA flight plan to IAD and back, and flying a long downwind while they wait for a safe place to stick me into final. (Usually did this as a treat with a student after their first solo)
Once on a long final, tower was confirming I just wanted to taxi back and pick up flight plan back to JYO, and I confirmed then joked, “unless you just want to give us a touch and go”. He said, “standby”.
Next thing I heard was “skyventures xx, cleared for the option, after take off, fly heading 330 (or so) and call Leesburg in site”.
Damnest thing I ever heard!
Best part was when I got into argument with another flight instructor on ctaf, after calling 3 mile final for 35, traffic permitting, straight in.
He was insisting I was lost and in fact on final for 17. (That last part is funnier if you know the geography. Check out a Washington TAC chart for context.)
Good times, I miss those days. ;)
We’ve had 19 deviations in 2019. Much of that has had to do with the “tower” at JYO.

I am totally going to try this in the next couple weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

ozziecat35

4 out of 5 great lakes prefer Michigan.
I heard a rumor of a TFR going up over MDW because all the GA guys are taking advantage of it being uncontrolled at the moment. Crew room rumblings / etc.
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
no, I mean put you guys (your ARTCC peeps) onboard them. Just the USAF flight crew up front.

I would imagine that GCI people.....separation isn’t in their philosophy lol
Like you said, the mil folks have a different mission. Do those scopes overlay airways or airspace boundaries?
 

nabbyfan

Well-Known Member
Is there actually any sort of formal plan on the books in case that became necessary?

Our LOA/SOP for my ARTCC declaring ATC-0 is that none of the surrounding ARTCC/TRACONs will buy any of our airspace, but our neighboring ARTCC will hold and divert any inbound to our airspace. But yeah, the “plans” we have are laughable. Nobody was ever trained/briefed on them. Like mentioned above I dusted out the old binder today as a precaution, figured we should have it available in the operational area. 25 year veteran controllers were reading it going “Holy crap they really have no plan for this at all”.

Fun times ahead!
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Yup, that's all correct. You sound like someone who just realized gravity is why objects don't float away.
Oh please. I’d rather risk 500k to 2 Mil (won’t be that high) dead Americans before risk having complete martial law in all 50 states enforced by the National Guard / military.

No one said that freedom would be free. Or cheap. Isn’t that the battle cry?

The economy needs to open again and ASAP. No more than 2-3 weeks of this shutdown.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
Oh please. I’d rather risk 500k to 2 Mil (won’t be that high) dead Americans before risk having complete martial law in all 50 states enforced by the National Guard / military.

No one said that freedom would be free. Or cheap. Isn’t that the battle cry?

The economy needs to open again and ASAP. No more than 2-3 weeks of this shutdown.
We lost 500,000 soldiers in WWII, and you're willing to quadruple that number with this virus because your 401k isn't doing well?
 

majorpilot

Well-Known Member
Oh please. I’d rather risk 500k to 2 Mil (won’t be that high) dead Americans before risk having complete martial law in all 50 states enforced by the National Guard / military.
Easy to say when it’s not you or your loved ones who’ll perish.

The democracy discussion is separate. We’ve been slouching towards authoritarianism for years by empowering the office of the President. The latest guy is (fortunately) too mentally limited to take advantage of it, but this could be our last clear chance to stop an imperial presidency.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
We lost 500,000 soldiers in WWII, and you're willing to quadruple that number with this virus because your 401k isn't doing well?
Downplaying it as “your 401k isn’t doing well” is asinine. The entire world economy is collapsing. Hyperinflation is a very strong possibility as the mega-Keynesian treatments start to be put into place with mass cash infusions and trillions of dollars created out of thin air.

Am I willing to let 2 million die in order to prevent a global depression the likes of which we’ve never seen before? You’re damned right I am. Because far, far more will suffer from the depression.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
We lost 500,000 soldiers in WWII, and you're willing to quadruple that number with this virus because your 401k isn't doing well?
No.

First, the numbers won’t be that high. The data is flawed. When someone dies and the post mortem reveals Cornavirus, that counts as a corona death. But where is the proof the virus itself caused the fatality. What if it was their underlying pre-existing health condition, and the virus was just there hanging in the back and not the actual front cause of death?

Give it 1 year and watch. The numbers won’t be that high or even close to it. Thing is though, it’ll be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Say we cap the deaths at 100k, next year everyone will look back and say see? It could have been 2 million! We stopped it at 100k. The proof is extrapolation of current trends but that math is flawed.


Second, can you lay off the 401K? I don’t even check that except twice a year. It is what it is. It’ll recover and we’ll be fine eventually.

Its too bad you can’t see how full martial will enforced by gun from the government is the end of liberty and life as we know it. That is way too much power for the government. We the people should rule.

Since you like throwing numbers, let’s just say 2 million die. 2 mil / 325 mil = .615%

So for .615% of the population, let’s install a 50 state martial law enforced with lethal force from the Guard. That would be a big fat NO.

“Those who sacrifice liberty for security........”
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Downplaying it as “your 401k isn’t doing well” is asinine. The entire world economy is collapsing. Hyperinflation is a very strong possibility as the mega-Keynesian treatments start to be put into place with mass cash infusions and trillions of dollars created out of thin air.

Am I willing to let 2 million die in order to prevent a global depression the likes of which we’ve never seen before? You’re damned right I am. Because far, far more will suffer from the depression.
How many kittens must be dead by now with how many Likes I’m clicking on you.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
No.

First, the numbers won’t be that high. The data is flawed. When someone dies and the post mortem reveals Cornavirus, that counts as a corona death. But where is the proof the virus itself caused the fatality. What if it was their underlying pre-existing health condition, and the virus was just there hanging in the back and not the actual front cause of death?

Give it 1 year and watch. The numbers won’t be that high or even close to it. Thing is though, it’ll be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Say we cap the deaths at 100k, next year everyone will look back and say see? It could have been 2 million! We stopped it at 100k. The proof is extrapolation of current trends but that math is flawed.


Second, can you lay off the 401K? I don’t even check that except twice a year. It is what it is. It’ll recover and we’ll be fine eventually.

Its too bad you can’t see how full martial will enforced by gun from the government is the end of liberty and life as we know it. That is way too much power for the government. We the people should rule.

Since you like throwing numbers, let’s just say 2 million die. 2 mil / 325 mil = .615%

So for .615% of the population, let’s install a 50 state martial law enforced with lethal force from the Guard. That would be a big fat NO.

“Those who sacrifice liberty for security........”
So you're re-evaluating your position on firearms?
 
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