Will pay eventually go back up??

DBATC

New Member
I am new to this forum so hopefully I am not touching on a existing topic.

I recently saw a spread sheet with ATC new payban. It looks like pay has been cut around 30%.
Why in the world would they slice the pay when they are so desperate for new controllers? I would think the idea would be to make the career seem more attractive. Do you guys think that the pay will go back to what it was, go down further, or stay in the current range?

ps - How do I search the forum for older topics so I wont have to repeat past posts??

Thanks
 

conmant

New Member
DBATC,

I have met many air traffic controllers who are torn on this subject. I agree that the labor agreement must be settled for both NATCA and FAA management on behalf of the controllers. I also saw how much new controllers can make over a career versus older controllers and find it appalling. We all know that we can still make a nice, comfortable salary over our careers, but we're protecting lives. I have the utmost respect for our pilots and all that they do, and often they are not treated in the best manner, but controllers are the eyes for the pilots and thus share in the enormous responsibility. We should be compensated for the stressful, mistake-free nature along with a mental responsibility we live with daily.

It's a shame that new controllers are subjected to this. Often, some will say stop whining and complaining. I respectfully disagree with them. I don't blame NATCA for rejecting the FAA's offers because if we agree to a huge cut this time around, the next time they may try to reduce it even more.

With the responsibility of this job, the past and existing controllers who paved the way for us future controllers have earned their due justice. It's up to the future to continue the fight not just for us, but for them.
 

chopper

New Member
Whas up,

I'm interested in reading some of the material that discuss this pay cut for ATC's. Any suggestions on where I can find some materials on this?

You would think that they would do everything in their power to make this career more attractable.

Any ideas or suggestions are much appreciated.
 

GyasiM

New Member
Whas up,

I'm interested in reading some of the material that discuss this pay cut for ATC's. Any suggestions on where I can find some materials on this?

You would think that they would do everything in their power to make this career more attractable.

Any ideas or suggestions are much appreciated.
The issue is not with new hires. The demand is being met with tons of applicants. The issue is with current CPCs. Prior to the new scale it was very natural for a CPC at lower lever to move up to a busier location for an increase in pay. But with the new scale, They would lose their salary and potentialy make a lot less when moving to the new scale, all while doing more work!

Now the higher level facilities have to take rookies right out of OKC which just increases training expenses. Most 10-12 facilities just are not used to training fresh meat and have not been doing a good job leading to many new hires washing out meaning that all the money spent training them at OKC and how ever long they lasted at the facility is now down the toilet. And thats ALOT OF MONEY.

They take every transfer as case by case and are giving out different one time packages. but that is just a quick fix and will not work on everyone to fill the current and upcoming void. However it looks like the FAA thinks this will work. It won't work but it will be a few years before a change. My only concern is what about us. What type of clause will there be for hired after 2008 & ect...

Like i said, the applicant pool is high, they will not throw more money at us because they don't need too!
 

Prino

Well-Known Member
speaking of pay, when does the current "contract" (IWR) expire and they begin negotiations again?
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
Most 10-12 facilities just are not used to training fresh meat and have not been doing a good job leading to many new hires washing out
Sir/Madam,

I am extremely offended at you statement that WE (seasoned controllers)are not doing a good job and that is the reason YOU (the trainees) are washing out. Maybe it is because YOU do not know what you are doing/YOU have NO business being at the busiest facilities in the world/YOU don't study enough (this is NOT daycare and YOU are not owed anything)/YOU were taught **** at your CTI school/do I need to go on.

It's always someone else's fault...isn't it?


To answer the original question:
 
The issue is not with new hires. The demand is being met with tons of applicants Most of which aren't capable of doing the job the FAA is advertising on facebook and myspace, now there's who I want controlling my airplane, that's quality. The issue is with current CPCs. Prior to the new scale it was very natural for a CPC at lower lever to move up to a busier location for an increase in pay. But with the new scale, They would lose their salary and potentialy make a lot less when moving to the new scale, all while doing more work! And this is the CPCs fault how? Somehow I see the IWRs, new pay-scale, and non-tract to blame for them not wanting to move.

Now the higher level facilities have to take rookies right out of OKC which just increases training expenses If you've read some of the posts on here most of these new guys are REQUESTING to go to the lvl. 12 facilities because they want the "challenge" and think they can handle it. Most 10-12 facilities just are not used to training fresh meat and have not been doing a good job leading to many new hires washing out meaning that all the money spent training them at OKC and how ever long they lasted at the facility is now down the toilet. And thats ALOT OF MONEY. Contribute most of the wash outs to OKCs inability to act as a screen between training and the facility like it used to (>20% of people going through passed). Then to send them to facilities such as ATL, LAX, DFW etc., do you really think it's right to take someone whose never spoken to an airplane and throw them into the busiest facilities in the world and expect them to succeed where those who have controlled traffic at lvl. 10-11 facilities have failed? Especially with their work ethic (watching TV during breaks from the class room, coming back from breaks late, etc.)

They take every transfer as case by case and are giving out different one time packages. but that is just a quick fix and will not work on everyone to fill the current and upcoming void. However it looks like the FAA thinks this will work. It won't work but it will be a few years before a change. My only concern is what about us. What type of clause will there be for hired after 2008 & ect...

Like i said, the applicant pool is high, they will not throw more money at us because they don't need too! I hope they can stand their ground when all of their currently hired trainees and those that they will hire quit/wash out and their applicant pool has dried up (The CTI and VRA pool is even now pretty much non-existant). There are those that have already completed their R school (or RADAR training) at ZTLamong other facilities and are resigning. Throwing people at the problem is not helping and the FAA is going to figure that out after more than half of the PUBNAT applicants that will be hired this year and next year have either washed out or resigned for the various complications that the IWRs and "contract" have caused.
In no way can you attribute the failure of the FAA to train and retain people to the CPCs, they work their @$$ off 6 days a week and until you've checked out and figured out what the job's about, show them a little respect.
 

pm577

New Member
I would think pay has to go up if a democrat is elected.

Any sort of negotiated settlement is likely to result in a higher wage for the new-hires. The only question is, how much higher?
 

Philip

New Member
it's out of our hands, if it goes up, awesome. if it doesn't, sounds to me like this isn't the type of career you should be in for the money anyway.
 

GnW

New Member
it's out of our hands, if it goes up, awesome. if it doesn't, sounds to me like this isn't the type of career you should be in for the money anyway.
anyone who says the money doesnt matter is retarded. im sorry, but the money always matters. that's why it's called work.
 

pm577

New Member
anyone who says the money doesnt matter is retarded. im sorry, but the money always matters. that's why it's called work.
Well, I think there is a middle ground. If you are going into ATC solely for the money, then you may be disappointed. However, those with interest in the profession and also looking to make a living, will hopefully find ATC a fulfilling career.

I will be taking a pay cut as an ATC trainee. However, I also hope that someday my pay will increase above my current wage. I'm also factoring in other factors, such as earlier retirement, better govt. benefits, better future contract, etc. Plus of course, I have a strong interest in actually controlling airplanes, so that helps.
 

Philip

New Member
anyone who says the money doesnt matter is retarded. im sorry, but the money always matters. that's why it's called work.

As someone that's about to take a HUGE pay cut to go do something he hopes to enjoy, money isn't everything.

yes you have to make enough for you and your family to live comfortably but I think you need to derive some sort of job satisfaction from whatever source or you'll be a miserable person.
 

RobertB

Well-Known Member
I have heard 15% pay raise across the board if Obama gets elected.
I have heard that when he gets elected the middle class will get a pay cut. Who is going to pay the difference? People of upper income brackets. Who is going to be someone in an upper income bracket after checking out at a decently large facility? YOU ARE! So who is going to actually never see the effect of that 'pay raise?' YOU!
 

Philip

New Member
I have heard that when he gets elected the middle class will get a pay cut. Who is going to pay the difference? People of upper income brackets. Who is going to be someone in an upper income bracket after checking out at a decently large facility? YOU ARE! So who is going to actually never see the effect of that 'pay raise?' YOU!

Well, if a dem is elected any expenditure on the air traffic system is probably going to be financed by user fees, and as unpopular as it may be around here, I'm very much against them.
 

pm577

New Member
I have heard that when he gets elected the middle class will get a pay cut. Who is going to pay the difference? People of upper income brackets. Who is going to be someone in an upper income bracket after checking out at a decently large facility? YOU ARE! So who is going to actually never see the effect of that 'pay raise?' YOU!
Assuming a wage increase is offset by a tax increase, at least ATCers will get a negotiated contract. Plus, perhaps morale will improve with the relaxation of work rules. (However, controllers did better under Clinton with higher taxes, than Bush with lower taxes...)
 
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