Why...

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
It’s probably not so much that people can’t follow the flight director as much as people entering the wrong runway in the FMS and not verifying it. You enter the wrong runway in ATL and it will make for a bad day. This was a problem at my airline like a year and half ago and we were getting a ridiculous number of PDs so much that ATL banned us from doing RNAV SIDs until we could get our act together.
Is it pure error or is it runway changes that cause that?
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
It’s probably not so much that people can’t follow the flight director as much as people entering the wrong runway in the FMS and not verifying it. You enter the wrong runway in ATL and it will make for a bad day. This was a problem at my airline like a year and half ago and we were getting a ridiculous number of PDs so much that ATL banned us from doing RNAV SIDs until we could get our act together.

Yeah, but did you get your “ROLL CLB 151” callout okay?
 

Jordan93

Well-Known Member
Is it pure error or is it runway changes that cause that?
According to ASAPs, we weren’t verifying the correct runway was in the FMS. So it wasn’t a lack of skill flying the SID. We just weren’t trapping our errors and verifying the runway through several checklists.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
According to ASAPs, we weren’t verifying the correct runway was in the FMS. So it wasn’t a lack of skill flying the SID. We just weren’t trapping our errors and verifying the runway through several checklists.
Right, but are people just plain putting in the wrong runway, or are they putting the right one in when programming after getting the clearance (or PDC I guess cuz u fancy) and then getting a different runway with ground/tower?

Also the point about the AP doing the same thing if you’ve got the wrong runway programmed makes me think that can’t be all there is to it.
 

Jordan93

Well-Known Member
Right, but are people just plain putting in the wrong runway, or are they putting the right one in when programming after getting the clearance (or PDC I guess cuz u fancy) and then getting a different runway with ground/tower?

Also the point about the AP doing the same thing if you’ve got the wrong runway programmed makes me think that can’t be all there is to it.
I don’t think many of the reports reported a runway change. Crew were just outright entering in the wrong runway to begin with.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
You haven’t flown RNAV departures out of CLT, I see. :rolleyes:
No, I haven’t, which is why I’m seeking knowledge. So far the only answer I’ve gotten doesn’t compute. I want to understand and expand my knowledge base. Not trying to belittle anyone’s skills (well, except anyone who thinks that using the autopilot will help if you’ve plugged in the wrong runway for the SID, that’s just silly).
 

CUTigerPilot

RJ Scum
I hand fly in and out of DCA 90% of the time unless the WX is crap. Love being able to circle to 33/15. Hand flying the RV19 from FERGI on in is fun. People make it way too complicated.

The SIDs out of CLT are nothing special.Going north it’s either 330/025 off of 36C/36R respectively. Going south, heading 190. All expect vectors and a level off at 8000’ passing underneath inbound traffic then expect 16000’.
 
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msmspilot

Well-Known Member
No, I haven’t, which is why I’m seeking knowledge. So far the only answer I’ve gotten doesn’t compute. I want to understand and expand my knowledge base. Not trying to belittle anyone’s skills (well, except anyone who thinks that using the autopilot will help if you’ve plugged in the wrong runway for the SID, that’s just silly).
Look at the RNAV departures in CLT. They start with a heading, then vectors to a fix on the departure. While it's still important to program the correct runway, because the first turn is in different directions, the autopilot can't fly the SID because there are vector legs programmed in.
 

msmspilot

Well-Known Member
I hand fly in and out of DCA 90% of the time unless the WX is crap. Love being able to circle to 33/15. Hand flying the RV19 from FERGI on in is fun. People make it way too complicated.

The SIDs out of CLT are nothing special.Going north it’s either 330/025 off of 36C/36R respectively. Going south, heading 190. All expect vectors and a level off at 8000’ passing underneath inbound traffic then expect 16000’.
You're correct that the SIDs out of CLT are nothing special, but they're not "program the box and let george do it."
 

msmspilot

Well-Known Member
Your autopilot can’t fly it you mean.
You have an autopilot that can take verbal commands from ATC to change headings and then go direct to a point? I wasn't aware that existed.

If by autopilot fly the SID, you mean it can fly the initial turn, then fly the headings I input, then go direct to the fix after I input it, then yeah, the autopilot will do it. But it's not the "program it, click it on, and let it go" that a SID out of ATL is.
 
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