Why do people attend Pan-Am?

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
I hear so many negative things about Pan-Am in Florida and in Phoenix from Pan-AM students. Why are people still attending this school? I toured Pan-Am in Phoenix and it was obvious they were only interested in my money. I lost intrest in the school after one tour with fast talking Bob out there in Phoenix. I am hearing alot of negative things about the students being charged for flight and brief time they are not receiving as well as being forced to fly when they are sick or being charged anyway. People, you are in charge of your training and your money. If you feel you are being screwed, take your money and go somewhere else. Here is a qoute from a website I will post at the bottom of this post.

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The attitude by all of the staff at Pan Am Fort Pierce is that the student is lucky to be there. At no time does a student have any input on their training. Students are constantly threatened by managment, and if the don't like it, they are told they will not be hired and will be stopped by getting a job at any airline. Students are only allowed to leave the school for 7 days during the entire course of training, and only when it is approved. The approvals are hardly ever given. The Chief Pilot once told several students they could not have time off because "They represent too much revenue for the school". This is the main problem MONEY. The school is clearly going broke, and they struggle to get every dollar out of the few students they have left by treating them like dirt. Many students have left because of the way they have been treated. If these students had stayed maybe Pan Am would not be in the state they are in now.


[/ QUOTE ]
If Pan-Am keeps this crap up they will join ATA....ILS

Another blow to Pan-AM
 

Wolverine

New Member
Once again, someone with no personal experience with PanAm is making attacks. Why are you wasting your time and energy talking about something that you no nothing about?

Peace out
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
Actually, simply knowing a few guy's at your location in Phoenix, touring Phoenix myself and talking with Brad Katherines, talking with several of your FT.Pierce students and instructors when they park their Pan-Am planes next to Flight Safety to take a tour of Safety and reading the posts is enough experience for me to voice an opinion of the school. What amazes me is that the management at Pan-Am refuses to realize that they are destroying what little reputation they have by treating the students and instructors the way they do. I have received alot of my information straight from your instructors I run into at the local coffee shop. My post was not to be taken as "bashing the school". Rather, if you are being screwed, go somewhere where you will be treated like a customer and given the excellent training you are paying for. If the Pan-Am management refuses to listen to their students (customers), then let them go out of business after you all leave. Maybe when they are standing in the unemployment line they will realize they should not have screwed their customers anyway they could to generate extra revenue. Having the student do the "ACE" program in the middle of their commercial is a good example. What good is CRJ (FTD) training to a student with 100 hours in their logbook. It is revenue for the school thats what it is. Hell, the "ACE" program used to be optional. Nobody was signing up for it so they made it mandatory. If it really was required by their contracts with the regionals then they should put the students through it after the 500 hours of dual given and right before the interview. Have you ever heard of the thoery of disuse? I hear they are looking for a new operations manager. It is probably to late.
 

JoeBlow

Well-Known Member
The standards are high at Phoenix, but you can thank the management for the crappy service. I’m curious if any of the management attended business school or college at all. Pan Am has the potential to be a great school if they fire some executives. It is just amazing how someone in a management position can’t grasp the concept of customer first and customer satisfaction. If the customer has nothing but praise for a service they have paid for, the word gets around, but if there is nothing but bad things to say then the word seems to travel much faster. When someone gets screwed by Pan Am then comes to this board to express what has happened it seem that many view the individual as bashing or whining when all they are doing is trying to help others to get a glimpse of what it is like to attend Pan Am. Not everyone has bad experiences with this school and they too like to share-some then applaud. while those having bad times get bashed for telling their side. What’s up with that! I like to learn from others mistakes.
 

FLDiver

New Member
That "Accountant" should have been fired a long time ago. Especially if she treats others as she treated me. She actually told me that "it was none of my business what Pan Am did with my money" I even sent a letter of complaint to the CEO about her and the rest of the Ft. Pierce trash. He wrote back and said that the matter would be looked into...wow...if that isn't blowing smoke up someone a$$, I don't don't what is. In my opinion, Pan Am is corrupt from the bottom of the management at the individual facilities all the way up to the CEO. Yes, Pan Scam is a business that wants and needs to make money (like any other business) but successful businesses are in the practice of customer satisfaction as well. No satisfaction = no business. It seems to me that Pan Am is in an inverted spin and may not be able to recover.
 

E7B

New Member
CLR4, just to remind you as a Flight Safety person you represent your school when you post here. You’re a pilot; try to show at least the resemblance of having some class. You sound genuinely pleased that ATA went under and are hoping for the same for Pan Am, how disgusting. My heart goes out to all the pilots at ATA and what they’re going through. Some of whom, with their families, are now in serious financial jeopardy.

I take it you’re on your 2 year marketing stint over there at Flight Safety before you can instruct. So this is your idea of marketing, putting down other schools. And you have no first hand knowledge of Pan Am. A tour and talking to the bashers who are making things up doesn’t cut it. You mentioned “Disuse”, so you’re familiar with the FOI’s. Here’s one for you: Defense Mechanisms. Remember those? Denial, anger, resignation. You’re basically dealing with a lot of bruised egos with the bashers around here. The real students and instructors who actually go to Pan Am would give you a better representation.

The real question: Why do people not attend Pan Am. We go online as instructors right away at Pan Am after completing the program. CFI’s are exceptionally trained and build flight hours fast. We’ve also had 30 hires in the last 2 months, and more interview dates being scheduled. Those are the facts.

You also have no idea what you are talking about with the ACE program. Airline pilots who come and check out the ACE program love it. They all say the same thing: They wish they had the ability to take a class like that before they started their first airline ground school. The ACE grads that have recently been hired by airlines are doing so well in their ground schools, the airlines are calling back and giving more interview dates to ACE grads. It also doesn’t matter when you take it in the program. As an ACE grad you can go back whenever and as often as you like to sit in on the ground sessions or ride in the CRJ sim (all for free). That means I can go back and refresh before an interview, and again before a class date.

JoeBlow/FL Diver – Actually what happens is when someone has a pro Pan Am opinion they are accused of being sales reps. It’s ridiculous. You guys have been on here for months now bashing Pan Am. Not yet time for you to move on? I really do feel bad for you. Apparently we’ve been about to go under for the last year, get real
 

TheFlyingTurkey

Fetus Worshiper
Well said E7B.

CLR4, If you really want to know why we go to Pan Am, or how it is at Pan Am, go back and read all of my post's...from day one.

There are a handfull of vocal former students here, who are loud and pushy. There are many more happy student's who dont say anything, because they dont have to.

The Turk.
 

FLDiver

New Member
Ummmmm....E7B, I never accused you of being a sales rep...I could give a hoot who you are or who you are with. If you are indeed Pan Am admin. why don't you show some intelligence and change your policies to serve your customers better?
Regarding it is time to move on, well, I will move on when I damn well feel like it and when I think I have recouped my losses from what Pan Am stole from me. I will never see the cash that they stole from me but it does do my heart some good to think that I (lil ole me) can cost Pan Am...you guys really need to think about that before you piss people off (regardless of your contract). For the record, the contents of my posts are based on my personal experiences at Pan Scam and are NOT made up or make believe. I wouldn't "bash" Pan Am if they didn't truely deserve it. I am sure you "bash" a store or business that does you wrong or costs you money, and for much lesser amounts than is on the line at Pan Am. So Pan Am admin., I will tell you once again, cater to your customers(students)needs and your poor reputation may improve. If and when Pan Am does go under, I would like to think that I had a little something to do with it...feel bad all you want. Word IS getting out!!! Think about that.
 

junebuguf

New Member
I have to agree on the crappy service at Pan Am. I took a tour at Ft. Pierce with an English guy who literally had lunch while shooting the usual tour bs in his office... Every few minutes he would stop to pick a stray piece of sandwich from his beard. I mean really! If you dont even have the decency to treat a *prospective* student with respect, you cant expect much more for an actual student. That was all I needed, I really didnt really pay much attention to the rest of the tour. I forget this guys name, but I hope they fired him.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Well, at least he wasn't doing kamikaze shots!


Oh, I just figured I'd lighten the mood a bit!

Carry on...
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
E7B, Let me start by saying that I am the first to defend people getting screwed by schools including ATA. I have spent numerous hours attempting to rally support for the ATA students from contacting the media to Jeb Bush. If you do not believe me then contact Jason Boggess who started the www.screwedbyata.com website. So don't sit there in your cushy little salaried position you obviously hold with Pan-Am and judge me. The message was posted to encourage the students who are getting screwed by Pan-Am to go somewhere they will be treated like a customer and get quality training. 90% of the information I hear about Pan-Am comes STRAIGHT FROM YOUR INSTRUCTORS AND STUDENTS IN PERSON including three of your KLM instructors just the other day. I have three friends who made the mistake of going to P.A in Phoenix who still call me and complain about the management and being there. The biggest reason why most students who are unhappy at a lame school do not switch is because they do not want to deal with switching the loan when in fact it is very easy. I was accurate on the ACE program. EVERY student I have spoken with has said they did not want to do ACE but were forced to. That is alot of money for FTD time. Also, after completing ACE you are given a couple of hours in the CRJ Sim before you leave for an interview not unlimited time like you are trying to make everyone think. People who know me know I speak the truth or I will not speak at all. If I say anything about a school (which is based on sound knowledge), it is not to bash the schools management but simply to help some poor green Pre-Private not to make a costly mistake. I could care a less about Pan-Am's management running the school into the ground. Think about how much you knew when you started looking at flight schools. Most of these poor kids will believe the first thing they are told. I have witnessed Westwinds marketing girl blatenly lie to a father and son about their program and I sat in Bob's office at P.A. Phoenix and listened to him attempt to blow smoke up my a--. I walked out and laughed after he told me I should have come to Pan-Am first rather then complete the CIME program at FSA. This is why we have these posts. I have given many GOOD schools credit for their programs but when I see a school screwing their students you better believe I will speak up. I have helped educate many new potential students who are looking for a school on what to look for in a school and in a training program. You would be surprised how many new students email me to see if they can call me to get some insight on different schools. I am happy to talk with them. No, I do not only recommend FSA. I suggest they tour at least three schools. The three I usually recommend are Flight Safety (obvious), Riddle, and UND. Sometimes ATP if they want a small operation. Yes, those three I mentioned are the "Harvard" of flight schools. Pan-Am has yet to make Jr. College...Next time, Make sure you look at the post for what it is meant to represent before you get your panties in a bunch. I would suggest trying to correct the problems at Pan-Am rather than defend them. ILS

By the way,
I think showing concern for others and helping them choose a school where they will be trained to be a skilled and proficient pilot shows a great deal of class...
 

JoeBlow

Well-Known Member
I don’t bash Pan Am; I simply tell what I have experienced there. How is that bashing? Go read all 80 of my posts and see how I complement on some aspects by telling the truth-good or bad it is the truth. I speak of no hearsay only the truth of how Pan Am operates and what I have gone through. I just hope someone who thinks about attending Pan Am is reading these posts so they can look at the good and bad to obtain a clear picture of what to expect. People get bashed for voicing their experiences and that is wrong. I can understand how some get bent-out-of-shape for those who talk hearsay and roomers. You don’t see me on Flight Safety’s board posting how that sucks to wait 6 months, 12 months, or even longer to get hired. Why, because I never have attended that school and therefore have nothing good or bad to say about FS-if I did it would be all hearsay. I’m not insinuating anything hear, but Pan Am has control over the students money just like ATA and that is wrong. The student should receive all the money they borrow and do with it as they please. Any reputable school gives the student their money. When a school has control of your money, they have you by the balls. At Embry-Riddle you pay for your activity by credit card being flight, ground or both after completing that activity and only paying for the actual briefing you received. I think it's funny when people stand up for their shcool it's like they are the keeper. They act as if defending their little sister. It's all about free speech!
 

guido161st

New Member
FLDiver- I couldn't have said it better myself. It's been almost two years since I left Pan Scam and everytime I see someone change there mind about Pan Am it brings tears of joy to my eyes. From all the money I got ripped off- it's good to see them get it in the end. I've actually had people tell me they didn't go to Pan Scam because of posts I've written. I've been on this Pan Am bored long enough to see people not listen to me and they end up chosing pan am- and then regret going!! That cracks me up the most. I feel bad because I know the situation they are in, but I warned em!! For all you guys that say it's the same old people complaining- guess what? It's the same old people praising the school too. Most of the time your new- after awhile you realize we were right. Lately I think there's more haters than lovers!! AAAAHHHHH it's a beautiful sight!
 

TDK90

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
AAAAHHHHH it's a beautiful sight

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Ain't that the truth brother, lets keep it up..
 

Snow

'Not a new member'
Yeah thanks to you guys I decided not to attend Pan Am. And thanks to ILS I switched from Westwind to FSA. (note I didn't actually start at Westwind, just enroled to start)

The Jetcareers forums have been most informative and I would say may have made some bad dicisions if I had only looked at the various school's marketing material.

Keep up the good work guys.
 
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