Who's the better pilot?

saluki_63

New Member
Who\'s the better pilot?

Just visited FSI and another flight school last week in FL. I will leave the name of the other out to so I can get some honest opinions and not one based on FSI vs. ABC flying school.

Like everyone said FSI was immacualate. It really was a very nice school. Great atmosphere, people, and equipment. Really couldn't ask for any better. The feeling I got from FSI though was that a good pilot is one who has 1200+ hours total time. He may not have a whole lot of specialized training for an RJ but he is a good canidate for a job.

Other school approached the training with a military style. Intense, advanced instruction on flying as a professional pilot, e.g. flows, CRM, etc...Student leaves this school without instructing but lots of time spent on systems of the RJ and some good time in a Level 5 FTD that gives them valuable experience in dealing with the complexity of an RJ and all the Emergency Procedures. ( I understand thjis time is not loggable, but it does do a very realistic job of giving you the opportunity to fly the RJ and handle different emergency procedures.

So my question to you is this.. All things being equal, you have two 25 year old pilots. One has 1500 tt with 800 of that ME time. The other pilot has anywhere from 450-600 TT with around 130 ME time.

Your the recruiter for the airline. Who do you hire. Pilot 1 has the most hours. Many of his hours are instructing in a seminole. Pilot 2 only has 600 TT but he is extremely well trained in systems of the RJ and has some goodl time in the RJ FTD. He is also very sound in CRM and his emergency p procedures on that paticular RJ you are hiring for.

Who do you hire? Two schools with two very different philosophy's. I don't want to start a debate on FSI's reputation. Iimagine that you are the recruiter for Eagle and FSI and ABC flying schools have the same reputation.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

I'd go with pilot 1 as being the better pilot...He/she has more experience while Pilot 2 is lower time and unless he's in an RJ, alot of the studying of RJ systems is a waste...(Note: I'm following the Pilot 1 track at FSI)...I think alot of people in your situation get real exited at the prospects of flying an RJ with low time, it seems too good, too easy! I'd say the best pilot would be someone like Pilot 1 who then studies RJ systems. Also consider this....The airlines stopped hiring months ago, who's going to get the job flying pipe line watch or flying canceled checks around? Those guys don't care that you know all about an RJ Flight Management System!!
 

Acadia

Well-Known Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

These days I cant imagine any airline will even talk to you much less hire you with only 600 hrs total.
 

d_gelling

New Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

I would assume that since pilot 2 doesn't reach the minimums, his resume would be tossed in the trash.
 

Heat2151

New Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

saluki_63,

If I was a hiring manager, I would easily go with Pilot 1, The pilot with the most experience. I visited the school that you are refering to, and yes, they have a decent program, but they also failed to provide proof of the graduates that, actually made through the regionals systems class without problems or failure. Now granted, this may difficult, but at least be truthfull about the facts, dont boast that this regional (AE) is still hiring 100% of their grads when there's 300+ out on furlough.

But you made a good point about the FTD, and there is a major difference between that and a Level "D" sim.

Also the training transition from a twin engine seminole to a turbine powered, Glass cockpit EFIS,FMC,ECAS equipped aircraft like a CRJ, is like opening a firehose and getting hit by it, it's very difficult. Learning avaition is huge task, and at the beggining our careers, we should first learn to become competent pilots, and when we are ready, we can concentrate on the glass cockpit. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

But based on my search so far, I would imagine that these regional hiring managers, would want first and foremost, a competent professional pilot who understands weather, Jepp landing charts and know AIM/FARS cold.
Pilot 1 with 1500 TT & 800 ME.
Check the following websites:
www.aviationinterviews.com
www.aeps.com
www.jet-jobs.com
Good luck with your search.

Best Regards,
Heat2151
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

We all know what school you are talking about because of the recoznizable BS they fed you!!! #1, There is no such thing as a level 5 FTD....level 5 means you can get typed, do anything in the sim that you can do in the aircraft. The school you went to has an ftd...no motion base, not good for types or anything of value to a 300 hour pilot! You get all the CRM training you can handle at FSI, you also get spatial disorientation (not at school X). Did you ask school X if they have examining authority?
********END COMPARISON********

Anyway, I didn't want to drag this into a FSI vs. school X fight, just like you didn't, but you can't ask the question you asked and get a real answer because it's based on faulty info! You don't need CRJ training if you are a freshly minted CMEL, you need multi time! You need to instruct to gain hours and proficiency.

THERE IS NO SHORTCUT! Everyone has to pay their dues. Don't let anyone fool you on that point. The quicker you realize that the days of 800TT, 100Multi in the right seat of a CRJ are over for quite a while, the better off you'll be. Don't base your decision on gimmicks or the smooth talk of marketing guys, base it on where you think you'll get the best training. Good training always shows, and it pays off!

Oh, and as far as training in checklist flows and stuff like that, you'll get that at any reputable school. Military-style? Interesting point...did the marketing guy that fed you that one a veteran? If not, how would he have any idea? As one of the only, if not THE only, regular on this board who has military aviation training (Sensor/Weapons System Operator in carrier-based jets), let me assure you that no civilian school is operated like the military. However, the military does send it's pilots to FSI to learn the C-12, C-20, C-5, AF1, etc.etc.etc. So the school X guy kinda put his foot into his mouth with that claim.

Chunk
 

TheFlyingTurkey

Fetus Worshiper
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

Level 5 FTD is the correct terminology. Fixed base (non-motion) simulator is a more accurate description. On the other hand you have the level D simulator, which is a full motion simulator.
 

Heat2151

New Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

Level "D" Full Motion Simulator, Recognized by the FAA to get type rated and to train to fly the real thing.



Heat2151
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

Find a good quality school that is honestly interested in helping you attain your goals. That's the only important thing.

Now if a school starts giving you claims about easily finding you a low time regional job in a job market in which there are a lot of high time pilots on the street, personally, I'd consider that a red flag. We've got two furloughed pilots that contribute to the website, feel free to drop them an email!

Pre 9/11-style hiring is dead and gone until the economy and the airlines pick up.

I look at it like this. This current job market sucks the big one. But if you're interested in aviation, this slump affords you the chance to train, while others that were expecting quick riches and mucho jobs galore are diving out of the profession.

So when things pick up, you're already trained, have some hours under your belt and you're one of the few that were able to tough-out the hiring slump. That's only if you've got the patience to pay your dues.
 

kdwilkes

New Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

I was fed the same BS at school X. They say the same thing to all their potential students. Did you bother to ask how many students with 500-600 TT got hired in the past 30 days? My guess would be zero, but correct me if I am wrong. FSI had 22 go to regionals recently. I chose FSI over school X b/c they have a better program, better training, and a better repuation. Also, FSI is Part 141 although I heard a rumor school X obtained this certification recently. Did you ask school X why their fleet was grounded after an FAA ramp check about three weeks ago? BTW, did you stop by the FBO I told you about? FSI is the better school hands down. Ask any respected professional in the aviation industry and they will direct you to FSI.
 

Veronaut

New Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

"One has 1500 tt with 800 of that ME time. The other pilot has anywhere from 450-600 TT with around 130 ME time....Intense, advanced instruction on flying as a professional pilot, e.g. flows, CRM, etc...Student leaves this school without instructing but lots of time spent on systems of the RJ and some good time in a Level 5 FTD that gives them valuable experience in dealing with the complexity of an RJ and all the Emergency Procedures."

Of course Pilot #1, any regional can & will teach you what you need to know about the RJ (or whatever they're flying) but they can't teach you experience. Let your future employer pay you to learn the RJ.

'naut
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

Veronaut conveyed my exact message much more succinctly and with less inflammatory statements...

'course, it's not hard to be less inflammatory than me...

Chunk

PS---Okay, the school X thing is out, as is the cat from the bag, we are discussing PAIFA for those following along at home....
 

kdwilkes

New Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

I thought we were discussing ATA in Orlando. Maybe the original poster can chime in on this one. From his description of what the school told him, it sounds identical to what ATA told me when I toured there.
 

Heat2151

New Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

Chunk,

Jeez man, was I off the mark. Since we are letting domestic animals out, I'll pull out a rabbit. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Having heard this before, it sounds an awfull lot like "ATA". /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Decent program, but after the marketing guy started to "Guarantee a job" with a regional (AE) that just furloughed 300+ pilots, I was getting ready walk out then. And when I pressed him for proof of the recent grads that where hired, all he had was paper work dated May,01. The funny thing about all this was that, during his pitch, he showed me a ERJ systems manual and pointing to a model of CRJ, telling me that "this is the manual for that aircraft, and at the end of your training here, that is exactly what you will fly" my responce was, "really, how would you know that, I thought the regional determines class dates and who gets to fly what". the guy did not take my questions to well, The bs was just to much, the guy reminded me of a used car saleman.


Best Regards,
Heat2151
 

TheFlyingTurkey

Fetus Worshiper
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

He showed me the same ERJ systems manual. Like it was a fact that I would be flying the damn thing next week. Used cars are too good for him.
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

Maybe I spoke too soon!

Tell us, thread-starter, what school is it?

Chunk

PS--Veronaut = Vitamin M = Infantryman's candy
 

ThreeGreen123

New Member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

Doug and Chunk have it exactly right. Gone are the days of the 500 hr airline pilot, if you or the school you visit think otherwise you/ they are a dreamer. Pilot 1 is definitely, without a doubt, the person they would hire. Lets face it folks, anyone with a private licence and some RJ training could fly an RJ. Heck, any of us with a private could probably fly a 747 if they let us work in the sims for a couple weeks. Would we be able to get the 747 from place to place? yeah. In any kind of adverse situations? no. Thats where experience makes the difference. Don't you see, it doesn't matter whether a school specially trains you for an RJ, who cares? A pilot is a pilot and an airplane is an airplane. I could study those systems and fly their sims and be just as ready in 3 weeks.

Heres the point. I think everybody needs to get away from these marketing schemes and grandeur ways to slip into the airlines in 6 months. Just totally forget it. If this is what you want to do, do it the way its supposed to be done. Get your licences, work somewhere, be patient, enjoy flying, and then make your dream come true. Anyone who doesn't want to pay their dues, in my opinion, shouldn't and doesn't want to be a pilot. I hear people bitch and moan about how they don't want to instruct, how its such a long road, and this and that. I always wonder if this is what they really want to do. Believe me, instructing isn't the best job. It has its downfalls. But it is defieitely amazing sometimes, so much fun and fullfilling. AND you are flying. There aren't many people that ever got what they really wanted without putting in their time somewhere or another. If you wanna make the major leagues, you usually have to be in the minors 5 yrs. If you wanna be CEO, chances are you were the mailboy for 2 yrs 20 some yrs ago. And its no different here. I understand some people are older, and need to get an airline job to support a fam, but you HAVE to remember its like starting your education over it takes time just like everything else.

Schools can promise you a lot of things to get you to come to their school. But the road to the airlines is thru instructing or some other "not so glamourous" job. Every single one of us is gonna have to pay our dues, and every single one of us will get there. The people that won't make it are the ones that are looking for the easy way out. So of course, pilot 1 will get hired. He has more hrs. But it also demonstrates that he is willing to be patient, work hard, learn more, and take the road necessary to get where he wants to go, much more then pilot 2 who took the easy way. We can all fly an RJ, but who wants it more? I know who I would hire.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Re: Who\'s the better pilot?

Amen to ThreeGreen123.

If you really want to be an airline pilot, being a CFI or flying rubber dog poo in Great Falls, MT shouldn't faze you.

I left b-yutiful Northern California to go fly Beech 1900's in one of the worst winters Wisconsin had seen in years for a grand total of $14,100 per year. NOBODY else was hiring, and even with 2,000 hours, I was still pretty low time for a regional job then. Nothing says fun like doing a preflight with 20 below zero windchill at 4:30am! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

If the above paragraph made you wince, there's your clue, maybe it's time to re-evalute the accounting job your leaving.
 
Top