Who hires from ATP?

cags97

New Member
Greetings everyone,

I'm currently scouring the country for the career pilot program that is going to work for me. I think I've gathered enough information to fill the library of congress.

I'm considering ATP's program (also Westwind, Comair, and FSI) but can't really get a good feeling for who hires their grads once they get ~1000 hrs under their belt doing CFI time. I'll have to finance a good portion of the cost so need to know how I'm going to be paying that back! - and ATP's brochure/web site is IMHO really lacking information on career placement!

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

BTW - I read an excellent book about getting into a career in aviation - "Professional Pilot Career Guide" by Robert P. Mark. It has interview questions, salaries, interviews with pilots/airline recruiters...good stuff!
 

SigAV8R

New Member
On ATPs website, there's a list of recent hires and by what airlines. I've seen quite a few regionals. The biggest thing to note with regards to ATP...95% of instruction you'll be giving will be in Multi-Engine Aircraft. Whereas ANY other school, you'll be teaching in mostly singles and a twin if you're lucky. Plus it's more up to the person IMO where they work after finishing a career program. Personally, I'm starting ATP in October and can't wait.

Steve
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Quoting Sig AV8R,

Whereas ANY other school, you'll be teaching in mostly singles and a twin if you're lucky.



************************

You sure about that? REALLY sure?

Doug, they are from the same IP range? I smell a rat.

I'm like a pig after truffles....

Chunk
 

SigAV8R

New Member
Doug - If we're getting so picky about where we're dialing in from...then this topic is going way to far. For those that care, I'm in Dallas and dialing in on SBC DSL internet line!

Chunk: You smell a rat? Are you taking a big whiff of yourself? Just because I defend my choice to attend a particular school, you start criticizing me? Who the hell do you think you are? Yes, I'm sure becuase I've seen ATPs Seminoles...have you? I have some good friends who have graduated from ATP and they told me that YOU PAY THE PRICE ADVERTISED...AND GET THE AMOUNT OF TIME ADVERTISED. By the way, are you just checking other boards so you can B*tch and Moan about all other flightschools which you don't attend? Yeah, you smell a rat alright...but it's not me.

For uofmcp1201

ATPs website is www.allatps.com.

Hey Doug...if people like Chunk complain about me listing the website...I'll send you $5 for writing it!

Steve
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Nah, I just saw that both IP addresses were from Bell South. I checked posting histories and did some other research and determined that you're a long time user.

You have to realize that the ATP forum is under a little extra "scrutiny" these days after someone decided to piss on my user agreement.
 

Visceral

Well-Known Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
On ATPs website, there's a list of recent hires and by what airlines. I've seen quite a few regionals.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, your post implies all of those regionals are hiring ATP grads/CFIs. Those are just the numbers of people hired by a particular regional airline each month.....all or none could be from AllATPs. It is useful info though to measure regional hiring.
 

P38

Well-Known Member
I'm like a pig after truffles....

Looks like you may have done some overeating this time around.

I guess 1 for 2 ain't all bad...
 

cags97

New Member
Whoaaaa...hold on a sec.

Just to clarify - I'm in Houston using SBC DSL - I think all of there traffic gets routed through a datacenter in Dallas. Anyway - I heard about this site from the ATP CFI that answered the phone when I called for some info. I'm new to the board and primarily posted this question after reading the whole ATP - VP posting incident. I basically wanted to know about their reputation in the industry.

I assure you it is an honest question - no set ups here!

I'm flying out to Westwind this weekend to take a look around. I am also insterested in ATP's fixed price and multi. engine time but really concerned about the quality of the training in such a short period of time. To me - a little ground school with exposure to other students experiences and questions sounds like a good idea.

And for the investment - it definately pays to research it!!!!
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
cags,

Sorry about the mixup...if you check out some of the other threads in this forum, you can see how one can jump the gun a bit. Enjoy jetcareers...it's a great site to get the skinny straight from students and we all take the thought of school administrators sneeking in and screwing the feng shui up seriously.

Chunk &lt;-----doesn't even like truffles.
 

SigAV8R

New Member
Not to piss anyone off...but I just don't like being accused of something which has no merit based on the fact that I defend someone/something. I'm not defending what Jim did! I'm just defending myself and the other people who honestly represent ATP and who are trying to share their opinions about the program.

Doug: didn't mean to sound like a smart ass...but I knew if I didn't say something to that effect, someone else would jump on me for posting it as advertisement.

For all who care, I start ATP in October and I would be more than happy to share my experience either on a separate thread you can email me directly.

Steve
 

Adlerson

New Member
To throw in my own $0.02..

ATP doesn't have any placement programs with an airline, not when you graduate the program, nor when you work for them as a CFI.
You may ask why not..
Well, first off, be wary about those schools who 'guarantee an interview' after completion of their program and so on. Anyone can guarantee an interview with an airline. I belive Dough himself said something like 'I could guarantee my 2 year old niece an interview'.
Does that mean you'll get hired? Well, coming out of a program with 250-300 hours I think you can guess the answer yourself.

Especially these days.

ATP hires most of the graduates from the ACP program back as instructors. Meaning, as someone else said, you get a butt-load of multi engine hours.
And when you come to an interview with 95% of your hours being ME hours you look pretty good.

So this hireing of own graduates may be looked at as ATP's 'placement program'.

Hey, told you it was only $0.02..;&gt;

Cheers,
Helge
 

Adlerson

New Member
I wrote this post then was proven wrong the next day, coming in to the office.


All the instructors from ATP got a letter from the Powers That Be(tm), basically telling us that ATP is working with several more regionals at this point, and told us to send our resumes in to the main administrative office, so they can try to help to place us with our 'partners'.
It didn't give any specifics as to what airlines these were though.

Granted I'm nowhere close to moving on, but my impression from talking with instructors from when I went through the program myself and now later when working for them is that the people at ATP really do care about their instructors and are more than willing to help with getting people their next job.
Do you have questions about a certain airline? The people in charge are more than happy to dispence good advice, and take the time to listen to you and talk about potential employers.
Need a recommendation? If you've held up your end of the deal while working for them ATP can give you some awsome recommendations.

So even though ATP doesn't have any 'official' program with placement of graduates/instructors they still do help to get you moved on when the time comes.

Just thought I would clear this up.


Cheers,
Helge
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Soooooo.....How did that conversation go at the office?

Let me take a stab:

Boss: Helge! Get your butt in here! What's this post on jetcareers all about?

Helge: What's the problem? I told the truth! We aren't associated with any regionals. Truth be told, most of these "associations" are BS anyway...like Pan Am advertising affiliations with regionals (Coex, for one) that have hundred of pilots on furlough! No one is stupid enough to buy into that crap.

Boss: What are you, some kind of hippy? Why don't you join the team and come in for the big win? (Okay...well, maybe that's from Full Metal Jacket!) You made ATP seem like it has no regional connections! Go back and fix it!

Helge: Who should I say we are affiliated with?

Boss: Figure something out!


Of course, I am kidding. I think Helge is probably between a rock and a hard place. I'm sure ATP does all it can to help it's grads and CFI's find jobs....I'm sure ATP is a good school. Hell, I considered it, but they weren't VA approved and I would have thrown away thousands in bennies if I went there. I know a lot of military pilots that went there for conversion and they said all good things. My only real beefs with the school is:

1. Marketing practices. Jim's attempt to defraud potential students coming to jc for unbiased info is totally unethical and slimy. Doesn't pass the *sniff* test. Also, not too long ago, AllATPS' platered their flyers on every car in FSI's parking lot. Pretty shady.

2. Multiple people logging multi PIC in the same aircraft. There is a time for safety pilot, but having half your hours as safety pilot is also a little shady. Again, the sniff test. Now, I have to admit, I don't know personally that they do this, but I've been told this by a few previous students....


AllATP Management! You have a good school! You have a good reputation! Don't blow it by using a few cheap tactics that may get a few students. It's not worth it.

Chunk
 

giladal

Well-Known Member
Chunk, I have 2 questions.
1) What is VA?
2) Half the hours as safety pilot?
about 95 hours?
 

Adlerson

New Member
I am 'so' surprised that someone (Chunk..;)) took the post that way. Belive what you will, I wrote my original post in the evening, the next morning our pay checks had arrived, and with them a letter about this co-operation with airlines. Last time I checked FedEx wasn't quite up to this level of efficiency.

There's also a difference between using links to the airline industry as an advertisement trait, and doing it as a service for your own instructors.

giladal, VA is a financing option available for ex-military personell. But to be able to use this financing the specific school you want to attend has to join the VA program, and ATP hasn't.

And to answer the last question, check out this post I made earlier.
So yes, you may say 'half the time' if you want, but then you'd have to specify we're talking about the X-C phase of the training.
And for what it's worth, I don't see any problems with this. I had almost 50 hours of solo X-C time before I started with ATP, all logged as PIC, of course.
I can honestly say I learned 10 times as much acting as safety pilot during the X-C phase of the program than I did dinking around here in California by myself.
If you want to compare the 'value' of the various PIC hours at least try them both first before you cast judgement.

On the one hand you have me flying alone from my local airport to Kingman, AZ, in a C152. The most advanced phaset of this is getting flight following. Good training for a low time pilot, absolutely, but..
Then you have me acting as a safety pilot when my partner and I fly from El Paso International to San Antonio International, using CRM procedures, flying a complex airplane, using every check-list available, handling navigation and radios, encountering IMC conditions, and you're telling me this isn't as 'worthy' to log as PIC time as my C152 time?
Perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions here, but saying the safety pilot time in the program 'smells' is a great disservice to the experience you gain from it.

Cheers,
Helge
 

giladal

Well-Known Member
Adlerson: Did you go to the Riverside atp?
I am planning on going there. How many hours of the 190 did you do as a Safety pilot ?
 

Adlerson

New Member
Nope, I went to the Phoenix location.
I live half an hour away from Riverside, and work there now as an instructor.
And the only reason why I chose Phoenix instead of Riverside was to be able to better focus on the studies. (Well, and the change of scenery, for just a few months. I've got the blood of a traveler.
)

And I logged about 33 hours (+/- a couple of hours) as safety pilot while going through the program.
But as I said in another post; Showing up to an interview with 900 ME hours I'm not really stressing about the ammount of safety pilot hours.


Cheers,
Helge
 
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