Very interesting LCC article!

mpenguin1

Well-Known Member
Jetblue employees also get other bennies such as profit sharing, I believe last year's profit payout was 13%. The pay will go up with time, the highest senority at Jetblue is what, 3 years? Jetblue is turning a profit, while the salary at Northwest was quoted at $200k, (that seems a little high), but last time I checked, Northwest is losing money.
 

BoeingDrew

Well-Known Member
That was very interesting, especially how it said that at the end of the flight, the flight attendants and pilots cleaned the plane. Also, it was eerie how they described Terminal 6 as TWA's terminal.
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Well who do you think cleans the plane? Do you think airlines actually pay people to come in and clean planes when there are Pilots and FAs standing around?

Most airlines have a night crew that comes in and gives a serious cleaning once on the overnight, but between legs? Yes, we have to go and clean out all the junk that passengers leave.

Things I've found in seats and seatbacks:
Newspapers (a good thing)
Books
Starbucks or others Coffee Cups, all crushed up
Gum stuck in the Safety Briefing Card
Dirty Diapers
Sick sacks filled with Urine (yes, really)
Sick sacks filled with who knows what
Used Hypodermic needles (I'm assuming diabetics here)
Child's toys
McDonalds Mess
An occasional dollar (is this a tip for a good landing?)
Empty skin care, cologne and perfume bottles
etc.

Next time you stuff something in to a seatback pocket you think of that FA or FO who is going to clean up YOUR mess.

Sorry about the attitude but this is one of my pet peeves!
 

mpenguin1

Well-Known Member
john_tenney

People can be really disgusting at times, have you been to the beach recently?! Nasty!

Urine in the seat pocket, chase the passengers down & tell them they forgot something....
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
We don't clean the aircraft at Delta, but when I was at Skyway, I was required to do so.

We arrive at the gate, deplane passengers, and normally head to a different aircraft in another terminal at Delta so there's usually enough time to walk around, load the FMS and do the departure briefing.

Not enough time.

Well, at Skyway, we kept the same aircraft usually and only had 19 seats and a short block time which decreased the amount of garbage that the average passenger would produce. Here's a short list of things that I found while cleaning aircraft at Skyway:

a. Newspapers (actually, that was good!)
b. Magazines (even better!)
c. Diapers (soiled, etc)
d. Entire full "sick sacks" of urine from passengers (we had no lavoratory)
e. Needles (always pull back the seat pocket before plunging your hand in there because you WILL get poked one day)
f. A used condom
g. Half-eaten, uinwrapped sandwiches that were mashed in the seat back pocket.
h. Used kleenex in all sorts of 'soiled' conditions

And my favorite

i. An Eel. Yes, there was a 3-foot long eel underneath the seat that I found during a Madison, WI turn.

I think the worst part of being a regional FO was that we'd land somewhere like Grand Rapids:

taxi to the gate

get out of the FO seat and wait until the agent brought up the footstep (required at Skyway)

open the door

turn the prop so it formed an "X"

deplane and thank passengers

run back upstairs to the cabin

start cleaning the aircraft

reassemble the seatpocket where the "sick sack" was nestled neatly in the passenger safety card,

put the Midwest Express magazine neatly behind each passenger safety card,

properly cross all of the seatbelts,

run back to the gate area to throw away the garbage

do a quick exterior inspection

jump upstairs to grab the paperwork

escort the passengers to the aircraft

tag oversize carryon bags

hop inside

do an accurate passenger count including locations

do a verbal brief of the passengers

hop in the seat and crank the engines.

All in a 10 minute turn. We're talking about arriving at the gate at 10:15am to deplane, clean, go upstairs and grab the passengers, tag bags, brief, preflight and be back in your seat ready for the 'before start checklist' by 10:25am.

Whew!
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
You don't help the FA's clean Doug? At Midway I was told it was expected that the FO would help cross the seatbelts and pick up the trash. Also, I was supposed to carry the senior FA's bag out of the plane (ha ha I fell for that for a while.)

I helped clean and cross for a while, until I saw the incoming FA crew sitting in the jetway shooting the BS. I believe my remark was to the tune of, "If you won't help each other, why should I help you???"

At the regional/commuter level though, I think it's fair to say that one of the pilots is expected to at least help with the cabin, and of course all the time in 1900s and J31s.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
You don't help the FA's clean Doug? At Midway I was told it was expected that the FO would help cross the seatbelts and pick up the trash. Also, I was supposed to carry the senior FA's bag out of the plane (ha ha I fell for that for a while.)

[/ QUOTE ]

The flight attendants do not clean at Delta. Maybe newspapers during the arrival phase before they're seated for landing, but other than that, we have ground crew for that. Besides, it usually ensures a more consistent cleaning job and there's no way in heck an FA is going to clean a lav! I know I wouldn't!
 

BoeingDrew

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Do you think airlines actually pay people to come in and clean planes when there are Pilots and FAs standing around?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The flight attendants do not clean at Delta. Maybe newspapers during the arrival phase before they're seated for landing, but other than that, we have ground crew for that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I did think that the airlines did pay people to do that.
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
I'm very surprised that Delta has cleaners at every station. That has to be one very high expense.

No wonder they are losing money
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
I'm very surprised that Delta has cleaners at every station. That has to be one very high expense.

No wonder they are losing money



[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, it's a contractor. 3 people at $6/hr part time, and a 15 minute cleaning job doesn't amount to much. Especially since it's all subcontracted.

It's real easy for a pilot and three flight attendants to clean a narrowbody like a 737, but when you're dealing with 75's 76's MD-11's 777's, etc, it's extremely impractical because you've got to clean the entire aircraft before boarding.

Generally, the cabin groomer's will hit the bathrooms first and then first class. While this is going on, the FA's coordinate with catering to restock the aircraft, then work first class as they start boarding. The cleaners then start cleaning the coach cabin.

By the time that first class is boarded, the coach cabin is clean and then normal boarding commences.

If you keep the same narrowbody jet all day, it *may* work, but if you're constantly swapping jets, terminals and deplaning thru major hubs, it's cheaper and more efficient to hire some cleaners than to try to cut corners, costs and end up having dirty aircraft that board late because the flight attendants couldn't clean the cabin in enough time.
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Doug consider that you have to pay those contractors almost 24 hrs a day, and there are probably hundreds at each hub, and tens at each out station.

That's expensive.
 

IrishSheepdog

Sitting in the median
Our FAs aren't expected to clean the airplane, however they are expected to pick up obvious large trash and cross the seat belts. With 34 seats it takes about 2 minutes to do that, even shorter when one of us pilots help. I ALWAYS help the FA, unless the captain is, or unless I'm too busy doing paperwork for a quick turn.

We swap airplanes a lot, but like I said it's a small plane, so easy to pick up some stuff. If there is something disgusting, we call operations and they send someone out to clean the plane (like puke, etc.).

It doesn't bother me ONE BIT to go help the FA. It isn't too hard to pick up a newspaper or two and cross a few seat belts. It takes about 10 minutes total out of my whole day to do that. A larger airplane (70+ seats) would be different, but 50 or less isn't a big deal. I've noticed helping the FA like this also makes things a lot more friendly between the crew. Anytime I hear anyone say "you are destroying this industry by helping clean... it's degrading pilots" I just shake my head. It's a small gesture but makes a huge difference to your cabin crew.

Someday if I'm really lucky and flying a Southwest 737 or something making $100K+, I'll still help cross seatbelts. Why not?
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Doug consider that you have to pay those contractors almost 24 hrs a day, and there are probably hundreds at each hub, and tens at each out station.

That's expensive.


[/ QUOTE ]

John.

We do not pay them 24 hours a day.

I doubt if there are even 200 at Atlanta, which is the largest airline hub in the world and I believe ACS in Atlanta, and/or Dobbs works multiple contracts at ATL.

Most of them contract with other airlines too, depending on the station.

I'm not sure why it would be more advantageous for me to be late to my next flight because I had to stay behind and clean poop from the seatback pockets, rather than change aircraft and gates and be there to load the FMS, complete preflight duties, work on customer service by greeting passengers and assisting the captain in making sure all goes smoothly.
 

Timbuff10

Well-Known Member
here at Frontier, we have aircraft appearance agents. As soon as the last of the pax deboards a team of about 3-4 agents (frontier employees, not contracted) gets on the plane and starts cleaning. I think one of the things Frontier is known for besides all the critters on the tails is how clean the aircraft is. They get about $10/hr too!
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
here at Frontier, we have aircraft appearance agents. As soon as the last of the pax deboards a team of about 3-4 agents (frontier employees, not contracted) gets on the plane and starts cleaning. I think one of the things Frontier is known for besides all the critters on the tails is how clean the aircraft is. They get about $10/hr too!

[/ QUOTE ]

Eek! They're going to go out of business!

Pull the pilots out of the cockpit and make them clean poop!
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
I'm just surprised you have contract cleaners for every flight. That seems excessive. At Atlanta they would be available nearly 24 hrs a day!

When does ATL ever shut down for Delta? I've taken 3:30 am flights out of there.
 

H46Bubba

Well-Known Member
When I was at working the ramp in SAN for AA, we had a graveyard shift to clean the aircraft and then load the first flights out of SAN. Everyone statred out on that shift(low seniority). But even after we moved to the day and evening shift we would still go through and clean if there was a decent turnaround time. The worst I ever saw was on the DC-10 which would arrive from JFK and turn around and headback to JFK in the morning. That was the dirtiest flight I had ever seen! It was like that every night that I worked the graveyard. The trash recepticals were always over flowing with trash. They were designed badly and had to pull most of it our by hand, to get the can out. Oh man, I hated every sencond of it. I think I used three pair of rubber gloves at one time to do it. I was always affraid that I was going to get pricked by a dirty needle.
 

Timbuff10

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Eek! They're going to go out of business!


[/ QUOTE ]

dont jinx us Doug!

If you think about it though, 3 people at $10/hr clean about 2 planes an hour. In the end $30 to have planes sparkling can go a long way to impress pax and bring them back to you on their next flight.

I have actually heard people say that was one of the things that stick out the most when they fly frontier. Every plane looks and smells brand new (well at least the airbus fleet). This is only done in DEN too, outstations never clean them.

Tim
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]


If you think about it though, 3 people at $10/hr clean about 2 planes an hour. In the end $30 to have planes sparkling can go a long way to impress pax and bring them back to you on their next flight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactamundo.

When I cleaned planes as a regional pilot, I pretty much did a half ass job because it was either board the aircraft and depart on time, or make sure it was sparkling and get griped at by the chief pilot for always taking more than 10 minutes from deplaning to emplaning passengers.

Besides, it's one thing to clean a 19-seat Beech 1900, or a 30-passenger Brasilia whose passengers only had between 20 and 40 minutes to generate a mess, but it's entirely another animal if you've got 150 passengers, that had a meal service, a few newspapers, airport-purchased sandwiches, a few drink services and 3 hours to wreck the cabin like a rock star.
 
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