1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Trump Budget Proposes to Defund EAS

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by hook_dupin, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. FloridaLarry

    FloridaLarry Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    530
    True of almost every state with a Lottery. The 'good intentions' of the legislators back then has given way to today's expedience. Damn near every one of those states now spends less state money on education than Before Lottery.

    Fool me once...
     
    Derg likes this.
  2. Lawman

    Lawman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    2,596
    Likes Received:
    2,924
    Not only that, the lottery is probably one of the best examples of a "poor tax."

    Others include high taxes on sin items like Spirits or Tobacco products which are consumed in much higher proportion in lower income areas.

    Congrats government, you managed to find a way to extract money from people who you couldn't effectively tax it via income/property.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Blue Skies 4me and pete2800 like this.
  3. Itchy

    Itchy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    4,149
    Likes Received:
    1,893
    Just the beginning. Trumpcare will wind up being a wealth transfer, and why do you suppose Sessions is going refer madness?
     
    MarkE and Derg like this.
  4. Derg

    Derg Naval Intelligence, MCRN Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1969
    Messages:
    33,969
    Likes Received:
    46,767
    It really feels like my father in law, approaching 70, with blistering fast internet access that gets triggered and sends everyone an ALL CAPS email about how we need to buy gold today because the Canadians are plotting an overthrow by what he read in a Brietbart "listicle" is in the White House.

    I'm not that political but I'm completely "over this" and it doesn't bode well for the next generation.
     
  5. Derg

    Derg Naval Intelligence, MCRN Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1969
    Messages:
    33,969
    Likes Received:
    46,767
    Arizona-style is using the lottery for education, then transitioning it to the General Fund.

    Then, every year, they threaten to cut the "sacreds" by annually threatening to cut teacher pay, fire and police budgets unless we vote for another "penny tax" or bond measure. The signs go up in suburban yards, "Support the Teachers!", "Support the Police!", "Support the Fireman, Remember the 19!", it gets voted in.

    Rinse

    Repeat

    The "tax cut" you get in Arizona ends up as a higher "invisible" tax in the end. The current iteration of "Fiscal Conservatism" and the "Cuttin' Taxes" campaign cry is the biggest Ponzi Scheme ever. It sounds great, people buy it, people in doublewides crow about our deficit (lol), but this ain't it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
    FloridaLarry and RDoug like this.
  6. mshunter

    mshunter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    14,061
    Likes Received:
    5,051
    You think Arizona is bad about that? They took that play (and the people fleeing it) straight from the California play book.
     
  7. FloridaLarry

    FloridaLarry Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    530
    The other part of the California playbook that has unfortunate consequences is Term Limits. Sounds good in theory, right? Well, in practice, a legislator serves two terms in the lower body, can't run for a third so runs and is elected to the upper body. Serves two terms there, and has to go elsewhere for a while before they can rinse & repeat.

    The problem arises is that s/he serves as an amateur in OJT-land until they learn the system. Then, just when they know how to do the job, they are gone. Two results: (1.) The work gets done by staff (civil servants and/or appointed pols), who are less accountable to the public. (2.) Legislators know they won't be around for the consequences, so it's easier for them to pass short-term band-aid fixes rather than solve tough problems.

    We've always had a form of term limits, called Elections. The public can vote the bastard out very 2 or 4 years, but doesn't always do so when they should. Combination of 'Yes, but he's OUR bastard.' and 'His opposition is worse / unknown / new to the job.'

    I've seen truly great legislators, at the state and federal level and from both parties, who served lengthy careers. Term Limits hurts in those cases.

    I paint a worst-case scenario I observed while living in CA. It doesn't always turn out badly - democracy occasionally works well and efficiently.
     
    Yakob likes this.
  8. RDoug

    RDoug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,329
    Likes Received:
    1,787
    Actually, it's a bit more insidious than that. Legislators make it very difficult for their constituents to vote them out because they've instituted a policy that penalizes their constituency for doing so. It's called the "Seniority System," and it's sole purpose to make bad legislators semi-bullet proof.

    Eliminate the seniority system and suddenly every incumbent has to run on their record.
     
  9. FloridaLarry

    FloridaLarry Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    530
    I wish it were so simple to fix. Seniority means you're likely to be committee chairs, and these are the guys who need to know how things work. True, it means you can bring more (often less-needed) pork home, and that's bad for the country, even if perhaps good for your district. And yes, that's a part of their record, too. They can, and do, take credit for damn near every federally-funded thing that happens in their district. Your airport get a million to build a new ARFF station? The announcement doesn't come from the FAA or DOT, it comes from good ol' Congressman Porkerini. FAA and DOT are complicit, because they want the good Congressman on their side when their appropriation comes up.

    So, I see both the good and bad sides of this. I'm scared about what professional politicians have screwed up for their personal reasons, but I'm equally scared about the dangers of ignorance. We don't let a green pilot with 75 hours take left seat in a plane with 175 souls on board. The same is true in Washington DC.
     
  10. RDoug

    RDoug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,329
    Likes Received:
    1,787
    Not quite. Expertise is why individual congressmen and senators higher staff. Their staff are who need to know how things work. When we elect a new president, no one is prepared for all aspects of that job, which is why their choices for cabinet and staff are so critical. Seniority is nothing more than an incumbent protection system.
     
  11. FloridaLarry

    FloridaLarry Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    530
    True, but also seniority often determines how they vote. When they're the majority leader (and to a less-effectiveness, minority leader), they sway more than just their own vote.

    Staff can influence and shape legislation, but ultimately it's the elected dude (or dude-ess) who decides how they vote, whether they follow party preferences & leadership (and they usually do) and cuts the deals that sometimes determine that vote. Ditto whether the leadership takes their phone calls.
     
  12. RDoug

    RDoug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,329
    Likes Received:
    1,787
    Does seniority make that determination, or does the desire to acquire seniority and the perks that go with seniority make that determination?

    As I said before, take away seniority and suddenly you have a bunch of people running for reelection on their records rather than their pork. And in that scenario, who needs term limits? Added benefits include the ability of representatives to vote constituency and conscience over party line and obstructionism without fear of retribution; any political advantage to obstructionism over compromise and voting the good of the nation as a whole; the elimination of hard right/hard left factionism and the confrontation that accompanies it.

    If the founding fathers had wanted a seniority system in Congress they would have institutionalized it. But, heck, they didn't even want career politicians in Congress. They wanted people who would serve one or two terms, then return to their communities to live under the rules they themselves implemented. Under that original intent, there never would be a seniority system because no one would acquire enough seniority to ever amount to anything.

    In my view, the implementation of a Congressional seniority system was the single worst thing to ever happen to this country's governing system. Its implementation eroded representational government by creating a special class of representative based solely upon seniority, created career politicians, rewards party loyalty over loyalty to country; and penalizes districts and states that do the right thing by voting out bad representatives if favor of good, while rewarding districts and states that perpetuate mediocrity or even worse.
     
  13. hook_dupin

    hook_dupin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,831
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    pete2800 likes this.
  14. FloridaLarry

    FloridaLarry Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    530
    There's nothing wrong with (appropriate) squeezes on EAS. The squeezes of recent years have eliminated many of the worst abuses - two EAS cities 30 miles apart, and empty planes being subsidized, and more.

    But abolishing EAS is a throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater approach. Creates great headlines, but (a.) the dollars involved, in the Federal budget scheme of things, doesn't accomplish useful savings, and (b.) the economic benefits to EAS cities tips firmly in the positive for economic development and quality of life.

    As always, Alaska is the exception to most rules. Might as well try to put the oil back into the Exxon Valdez.
     
  15. RDoug

    RDoug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,329
    Likes Received:
    1,787

Share This Page