Top Ten list of...

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
The taxi time post got me thinking. Lets have a little fun. Feel free to add to the list, but justify why. And no flaming. Heck, this could even be educational.


Top Ten List of BS Ways to Log Flight Time
(David Letterman style- but in no particular order)

10.) Hundreds of hours of "Safety Pilot" time
9.) PFT
8.) "Actual Instrument" in night-VMC
7.) 300 hrs. of dual received in turbine aircraft, but no pilot certificates
6.) Buying 500 hrs. of Metro SIC time
5.) Logging 350 hrs. of PIC time in aircraft you're not trained in just because you touched the controls
4.) Imaginary flight time
3.) 150 hrs of "Instrument Time" (even though 149 is under the hood)
2.) 2 pilots renting a plane and both logging PIC because "who's gonna know?"
1.) Taxi Time

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REASONS:

10.) Only BS if you have a ton of it. Probably not the best way to build time for a job. Flight schools who "sell" safety pilot time are also shady.

9.) Need I say more?

8.)Interviewer: "So, Mr. Smith, I see you have 350 hrs. of actual instrument time. Did you previously fly in the northeast?"
Mr. Smith: "Oh, no, I flew at night a lot over the desert."
Right. Night VMC over the desert is a little different than the real "actual instrument" time, but thats just my lousy opinion.

7.) Do I really need to explain it?

6.) Most agree that its not PFT, but its still BS.

5.) Interviewer: "So Mr. Smith, I see you have 350 hrs. of C90 time. Where did you get trained in it? Who did you fly it for?"
Mr. Smith: "Oh, I didn't get trained in it. I have my multi, so my uncle let me get some stick time with him."
You're screwed. Especially if thats your only real multi time.

4.) Ya'll know who you are. Karma will be along to kick you in the nuts eventually. Hopefully no others are hurt/lost in the process.

3.) Is it quantity over quality, or vice versa? Most of us realize that hood time is quite different than actually being "in it."

2.) Pure BS and violation of the FAR's. Probably happens all the time.

1.) Think about the words in the question. "Can I log taxi time as flight time?" Uh....are you flying? Then noo...

Alright, I'm done. Feel free to add to the list. Wonder how many nerves I poked with this one....
 

CK

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]

7.) 300 hrs. of dual received in turbine aircraft, but no pilot certificates


[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch that hurts.
 
G

Guest

Guest
1000 hours of PIC in the Orbit Airlines 737-400 on Flight Sim.

You mean I can't log that?????
 

rausda27

Well-Known Member
Sitting in the airport cafe..logging N-Numbers...I think Tenney knew of a good case of this one...
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

7.) 300 hrs. of dual received in turbine aircraft, but no pilot certificates


[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch that hurts.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry dude. Didn't mean offense toward you, but you gotta admit that while its good experience, its going to be questionable. Though I could be wrong, and I hope for your sake that I am- only time will tell.
 

Looking4Lower

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
8.)Interviewer: "So, Mr. Smith, I see you have 350 hrs. of actual instrument time. Did you previously fly in the northeast?"
Mr. Smith: "Oh, no, I flew at night a lot over the desert."
Right. Night VMC over the desert is a little different than the real "actual instrument" time, but thats just my lousy opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's as actual as any IMC time. I've done some of this in Texas and down into Mexico. When I first experienced it, it was actually slightly alarming and disorienting at first. It doesn't matter if the outside of your windscreen is solid gray or solid black, you're on the gauges, baby!
 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
If that is counted as IMC, then flying over northern Michigan on a moonless night when it's really VMC out should be loggable as flight in instrument conditions. You're not in IMC until you're in the clouds or there is 1/4" mile visability. At least that's how I'm filling out my logbook.

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
You're not in IMC until you're in the clouds or there is 1/4" mile visability.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true....but that column in the log book doesn't say "actual IMC time - it says actual instrument time....

I know it's the unpopular answer, and I don't log it in my book, but I'd venture to say that it would be considered instrument time.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
Question: FARs say it's flight by reference to instruments in IMC; do they define IMC anywhere or is it subject to interpetation?

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[ QUOTE ]
7.) 300 hrs. of dual received in turbine aircraft, but no pilot certificates

[/ QUOTE ]

You might as well just say 'CitationKid'


===

You forgot logging simulator time in the 'total flight time' column
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
If that is counted as IMC, then flying over northern Michigan on a moonless night when it's really VMC out should be loggable as flight in instrument conditions. You're not in IMC until you're in the clouds or there is 1/4" mile visability. At least that's how I'm filling out my logbook.

Cheers

John Herreshoff

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I get an Amen from the choir!
Same here.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Question: FARs say it's flight by reference to instruments in IMC; do they define IMC anywhere or is it subject to interpetation?

===

[ QUOTE ]
7.) 300 hrs. of dual received in turbine aircraft, but no pilot certificates

[/ QUOTE ]

You might as well just say 'CitationKid'


===

You forgot logging simulator time in the 'total flight time' column


[/ QUOTE ]

IMC= Instrument Meterological Conditions.

Time of day isn't a meterological condition!

Again, it could be a judgement call in the middle of the Atlantic on a moonless night, but not in everyday night flying. I used to fly the PHX-ABQ-TUS run at 2300 every other day, and it still was night VMC, even though there were times it was so dark, it felt as there was no relative motion. Still had a stars/ground semi-horizon, but a horizon nonetheless.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
My last post edited in fear of cannon rounds permeating my apartment walls...

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Curious how a non-instrument rated PVT can log actual without meeting 14 CFR 61.57(c)(d). If you aren't legal to fly in IMC, how can you log IMC?

The night being logged as actual question for a non-instrument rated pilot is interesting.....

Begs the question that a UND student wrote a paper on in the late 1980s. The student wrote a paper on whether it should become law that in order to fly at night, one HAS to be instrument rated. His paper went so far as to become a Notice of Proposed RuleMaking (NPRM).

Doug...remember this?
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
You can fly in VFR weather while needing to fly on instruments to maintain control... that's how I log actual anyways, if I would lose control by looking outside then I'm logging it as actual.

There is no definition of IMC in the FARs from what I can tell, only flight under IFR / VFR. Therefore, depending on how you interpret 'IMC' you could be in IMC under VFR and still be legal.
 

stuckingfk

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Begs the question that a UND student wrote a paper on in the late 1980s. The student wrote a paper on whether it should become law that in order to fly at night, one HAS to be instrument rated. His paper went so far as to become a Notice of Proposed RuleMaking (NPRM).

Doug...remember this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike, so what squashed it? I would think there are good arguements for both sides/. I think the U.S. could and maybe should adopt something like Canada with its night rating. I am not sure what extra requirements it is, but I am sure we could adopt something to make better pilots out of everyone.
 
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