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The Toll

#61
As to the work/life deal, I don't live to work, I work to live..... I ended up in the IT world and 'fell into' a niche market and through networking made some choices with great timing. There are days where work sucks and I wonder if i am in the right place.... Then I think about one in college and one soon to be in college. The job has afforded the opportunities that my kids have.....

There are some I work with that have some great satisfaction of 'public service' in what we do. Not so much for me. That's where the 'work to live' comes in for me....
I was just saying that both marriage/family and career are both important. That they make a person well-rounded. Just as our lives shouldn't be only about procreation as religious zealots suggest. I believe that life is more than just about family and that as an individual, we need something, a challenge. That makes us want to get up in the morning and fully engage life. Likewise a good career without a partner and a family to share the spoils of success with also make for a singular existence.
 
#62
Clearly I came across as a sanctimonious jerk. My wife is sure that I have a filter in my head that is "supposed" to serve as a gate between what needs to be stated and what should be stated. I often don’t realize when the filter is in bypass mode. Sometimes I come across like a roll of 60 grit Charmin and for that I apologize.

I’m not going to rehash this entire thread but the main thrust of my posts have been that you DO recognize your error but that you are choosing to continue along the same line. It is always difficult to get the truth (at least I know it is for me), however, the truth is that you HAVE acted in a selfish, egotistical manner with regards to THIS situation. But you are not alone in this; we (as husbands and fathers) often put our desire to be a financial success above everything else. We want to be able to discuss our accomplishments in a career with a puffed up chest and a big smile on our faces. We put way too much emphasis on what we do, rather than who we are. It’s a fact of society that our jobs will enter into a conversation within mere seconds of meeting someone for the first time. We are driven by ego; you’re no exception.

There have been several quotes from your posts that are very revealing in that you seem to waver with regards to the money you WANT to make and the result of that desire. You contradicted yourself a few times and that added to the discussion.

Just to clear one thing up for you: I was not “in a position to take a $50k pay cut”. When I resigned from that position, I had NO job and didn’t have one in mind. It was not an easy decision for me or my family to make (I have 3 kids, the oldest was 7; youngest 3). There is a fine line between making a move in order to spend time with family and “WTH” did I just do? I’m pretty sure I used that line as a jump rope because I had no clue how I was going to pay our bills let alone college. As I was loading the moving truck, I was making phone calls trying to figure out where I was going to drive it. I DID know that no matter what I did, we would do it as a family. I also knew that whatever I did for a job was more important than what I had in mind as a career. I knew that McDonald’s is always hiring and I was willing to do that to feed the family and see my kids grow up.

@BigZ is dead on as far as his read of me and my posts. I believe that if the job is the real reason for your divorce and you are making the necessary changes (you stated you’re changing your schedule- and income), you might be able to keep your family intact. And unless your children are 2 years or younger, they know enough about what is going on to be able to express their desire. And who cares if they can’t see all the way to the monetary requirements of a PhD? They know the now, this is their lives.

I am absolutely not a better person, father, husband, pilot, man, etc than anyone else here. I’m stating facts as I read them. I add to what I read from my own personal and professional experience and post a reply. Please reread my posts, if you take anything as a personal attack rather than helpful advice and observations, it’s called conviction.


I seriously wish the best for you.
I agree with what you say about us being ego driven, and he whole what we do, vs who we are thing. I'm sure there is a little of that in me, but I honestly believe it is not the primary reason for continuing to be a pilot.

I'm not quite sure where I waiver with what I want to do with my money. It's always been to provide a better life for my family, and I don't think I've posted anything other than that.

I guess I just don't see how going from working 22-28 days a month, down to essentially 1 week on and 1 week off, is me choosing to continue down the same line. I'll be with my kids more and taking a pay cut.

Anyhow I hear what you are trying to say and thank you for the sentiment.
 

OneNineHundy

Well-Known Member
#63
Best of luck Rockman. I had my first child last week and the thought of not being together as a family is sure not a nice one. You sound like a good guy and thanks for sharing your story. It has definitely made me think and for that I thank you.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk
 
#64
I've been home no more than 8 days a month since November. Even then, I was working in the sim on many of my days off. It has essentially cost me my family.
Its like my career is well into the recovery from the *I don't have the education to emote without using a curse word* I put myself in years ago. Thing is, what good is a career, without a family to share it with.
I've flown with many Captains who were divorced, I just never thought Id be one of them.
It's a fun job and I'm fortunate to still be doing it. I guess it's just hard to enjoy it right now. If I had to choose though, it would be family and working at at 7-11, vs no family and pilot, every time.
Fly safe, call home.

Sorry I don't know the details, is it over over? Any chance of counseling, etc?

My only input is if you have 8 days off, your comment of working in sims on those days off. You need to have absolute days off with the family. As in, days off in which you are literally off with no outside work. And that's especially doubly true if you are commuting, since that's going to cut into more time from home.

I'm by no means a long-timer in the airlines or even married life, but for my wife and kid (to be kids soon), I have to say the biggest thing is to be there on my days off for them and especially more so when commuting. Check in with them every so often. How they're really feeling, how the kid(s) feeling, any issues/problems, and then address them ASAP. For me, I've noticed that system works pretty well.
 

Plata

Well-Known Member
#65
Is the OP the person who was fired for abandoning his trip in progress to go home to do a brake job on his car?

I recall a long, drawn out thread with lots of "woe is me" and "boo hoo hoo" over the company not being understanding about his justification for bailing on his trip, which was: not being able to figure out an alternate means of transportation for his wife.
 
#66
Best of luck Rockman. I had my first child last week and the thought of not being together as a family is sure not a nice one. You sound like a good guy and thanks for sharing your story. It has definitely made me think and for that I thank you.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk
Thanks! Congrats on the child, it's going to be the best thing that happened to you! It was for me twice. :)
 
#67
Sorry I don't know the details, is it over over? Any chance of counseling, etc?

My only input is if you have 8 days off, your comment of working in sims on those days off. You need to have absolute days off with the family. As in, days off in which you are literally off with no outside work. And that's especially doubly true if you are commuting, since that's going to cut into more time from home.

I'm by no means a long-timer in the airlines or even married life, but for my wife and kid (to be kids soon), I have to say the biggest thing is to be there on my days off for them and especially more so when commuting. Check in with them every so often. How they're really feeling, how the kid(s) feeling, any issues/problems, and then address them ASAP. For me, I've noticed that system works pretty well.
If we ever did get together we'd need counseling for sure, we'd have to try something different this time.
You are right, part of the problem is my time at home, I was not completely at home. I had 3 part time jobs in Phoenix. It definitely was a major player in the break up.
I may not be able to fix things with the ex, but I've cut back drastically on my schedule, so that I can be there with them and have 50/50 custody.
 

touch-n-go

Well-Known Member
#71
I agree with what you say about us being ego driven, and he whole what we do, vs who we are thing. I'm sure there is a little of that in me, but I honestly believe it is not the primary reason for continuing to be a pilot.

I'm not quite sure where I waiver with what I want to do with my money. It's always been to provide a better life for my family, and I don't think I've posted anything other than that.

I guess I just don't see how going from working 22-28 days a month, down to essentially 1 week on and 1 week off, is me choosing to continue down the same line. I'll be with my kids more and taking a pay cut.

Anyhow I hear what you are trying to say and thank you for the sentiment.
I think your desire to provide a better life for your family is a good one, and one that most men have by instinct. It seems to me that men often, by instinct, want to express their love for their loved ones by doing, for them. It almost seems to me that we get a sense of who we are through what we do. The danger, of-course, is that, as posted by others, if there is no balance, the very thing we are doing in the name of helping our families, can actually end up alienating them, if there is no balance.

It is unfortunate in your present circumstance, that something went amiss in your relationship with your wife, which may, or may not even entirely be your fault, or even entirely your job's fault. It seems to me, it always "takes two to tango" so to speak. Never the less, I wish you the best of luck with your family, especially your children. May you do what is truly best for them.
 
#75
I think your desire to provide a better life for your family is a good one, and one that most men have by instinct. It seems to me that men often, by instinct, want to express their love for their loved ones by doing, for them. It almost seems to me that we get a sense of who we are through what we do. The danger, of-course, is that, as posted by others, if there is no balance, the very thing we are doing in the name of helping our families, can actually end up alienating them, if there is no balance.

It is unfortunate in your present circumstance, that something went amiss in your relationship with your wife, which may, or may not even entirely be your fault, or even entirely your job's fault. It seems to me, it always "takes two to tango" so to speak. Never the less, I wish you the best of luck with your family, especially your children. May you do what is truly best for them.
Thanks, appreciate it.
 

Freediver72

Well-Known Member
#76
I used the line of giving my daughter more than I had... Why do I need to give her more than I had? I didn't turn out bad. I learned I had to work for what I want and that my effort pays off. Why do I would I want to take that from her. She's a hard worker, she's doing well, she is learning lessons...her way, like I did. Speak well of your ex around your kids, no matter what she may say. Make your time with them about them, and don't throw "stuff" at them to impress them or show them love.

Now I want to re-tool myself (there is nothing wrong with that, life is short, try new things) and make better money than I am, but live the simple way that I am enjoying right now. Not trying to have the status symbols I was chasing before.

Dustoff17 had some good words. If you felt some things he said were a personal attack, ignore those words, change the tone you assume he is using with one of...concern or as a good friend would talk with you.

Making money is great, but it consumes your life, what are you missing out on? From what I read, it seems she felt your lives were caught in the rat race and she was missing out. I felt trapped in the race like that and I didn't know how to get out of it, it's a scary thought.

Best of luck man
 
#78
I used the line of giving my daughter more than I had... Why do I need to give her more than I had? I didn't turn out bad. I learned I had to work for what I want and that my effort pays off. Why do I would I want to take that from her. She's a hard worker, she's doing well, she is learning lessons...her way, like I did. Speak well of your ex around your kids, no matter what she may say. Make your time with them about them, and don't throw "stuff" at them to impress them or show them love.

Now I want to re-tool myself (there is nothing wrong with that, life is short, try new things) and make better money than I am, but live the simple way that I am enjoying right now. Not trying to have the status symbols I was chasing before.

Dustoff17 had some good words. If you felt some things he said were a personal attack, ignore those words, change the tone you assume he is using with one of...concern or as a good friend would talk with you.

Making money is great, but it consumes your life, what are you missing out on? From what I read, it seems she felt your lives were caught in the rat race and she was missing out. I felt trapped in the race like that and I didn't know how to get out of it, it's a scary thought.

Best of luck man
Thanks for the advice. I'll never speak bad about their mom around them. Infact I still want them to have a great relationship with their mom. I'll be taking them back with me full time, but I'm going to set up a private communication station for them in the house so they can FaceTime her when ever they want. I'm not going to make her pay child support so hopefully she can afford to buy them tickets on vacations.
 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
#79
Thanks for the advice. I'll never speak bad about their mom around them. Infact I still want them to have a great relationship with their mom. I'll be taking them back with me full time, but I'm going to set up a private communication station for them in the house so they can FaceTime her when ever they want. I'm not going to make her pay child support so hopefully she can afford to buy them tickets on vacations.
Their mother is cool with you having them fulltime? Wow.
Assuming she is and that's not just wishful thinking, how do you intend to pull that off being a pilot?
 
#80
Their mother is cool with you having them fulltime? Wow.
Assuming she is and that's not just wishful thinking, how do you intend to pull that off being a pilot?
She told me I can have them and she'll see them on vacations. She asked me if I'd consider moving to her state at a later date, and I told her I'd consider it, but how it affects the kids will be my primary consideration, not her missing them. For now I can't trust her and I have to much to lose by moving, with regards to being able to provide for my kids.

As for doing it being a pilot, I'm going to try it for a month or two. I have help at home, have the whole "Full House" thing going on with a couple of my cousins, except they're women. Obviously I will not be gone as much as I was.
If it doesn't work I have a part time sim job where I can go full time and make good money. Plus there are a lot of instructor jobs in Phoenix. Its not what I want to do, but I will do it if that's whats best for the kids.