The pilot shortage? Blame 4 year degrees!

Max Power

Well-Known Member
I am in the final three classes of my "box ticking" BA in Jurisprudence (basically paralegal studies). I've been wanting to get a degree for a long time, but it took until CA pay at my regional two years to afford to pay as I went. It's online, but through a brick and mortar state school in PA. I didn't want a pilot degree and the subject matter in the syllabus always looked interesting in the 10 years I looked at this degree on and off. The fact they took all of my associates for basic courses I did years ago( also at an in-state school) helped way more than any other school willing to give credit for my ATP and flight time.

Is it worth it? Who knows. Is it necessary and should it be a requirement to be a pilot at a major or legacy? No. We all know great pilots with no degree and crap pilots with multiple degrees. I will feel better having the degree. and I definitely learned (and appreciated) a lot more now at 42 than I would have at 22. Was it money I would have rather put away or spent on other things? Sure, but hopefully the career investment pays off after I officially get the diploma.
 
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Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
BUT, BUT, BUT, FUNDAMENTAL FAIRNESS!!!!!!
Mock it if you wish.

In every domain in which I've been involved, I've told every student I've ever instructed or mentored, "Aim for perfection. You'll never be perfect, but you'll end up damned good."

Same applies to fairness and pretty much every other conceptual goal we strive to reify. Start with the fundamental principle. Aim to reify that principle. You'll never get there, but at least you'll get close.

Starting with the goal of "Meh, good enough," results in something south of good enough. Sadly, as long as that level of mediocre is slightly better than their competition's mediocrity, in many folks' worldview, it suffices.

If you want to create a culture that rewards mediocrity, excuses, and image-over-substance... mock and deride excellence.
 
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jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
Mock it if you wish.

In every domain in which I've been involved, I've told every student I've ever instructed or mentored, "Aim for perfection. You'll never be perfect, but you'll end up damned good."

Same applies to fairness and pretty much every other conceptual goal we strive to reify. Start with the fundamental principle. Aim to reify that principle. You'll never get there, but at least you'll get close.

Starting with the goal of "Meh, good enough," results in something south of good enough. Sadly, as long as that level of mediocre is slightly better than their competition's mediocrity, in many folks' worldview, it suffices.

If you want to create a culture that rewards mediocrity, excuses, and image-over-substance... mock and deride excellence.
Exactly.

Watering down requirements is nothing but a march toward mediocrity. Obtaining a four year degree is not an onerous requirement.

Further, since you obviously didn't get the joke, when most people scream fundamental fairness on the internet, they're not actually being wronged.
 

JDean3204

Well-Known Member
If the degree is required then get the degree. My train of thought is if an industry requires something so expensive just to check a box after you’ve already checked X amount of boxes working through the career ladder, then do it as cheap as possible. People knocking on the online degrees are the same ones saying the degree requirement shouldn’t be dropped. So tell me how that is meant to work while being a full time pilot on the line? Pretty sure they won’t be able to make English class every Tuesday and Thursday, Statistics every Wednesday and Friday with a typical line or reserve line.

Not everyone chose to go to college straight out of high school, if every pilot did that would make us a boring set of folks. I like hearing the different stories of how people got to where they’re at, it shows that there are multiple ways to accomplish your goal. The truth is if this is a requirement to just show some level of commitment to a process, then find the least resistant and cheapest way to do so. Your future self will thank you.
 

MikeOH58

Well-Known Member
We are clearly in a Goldilocks type period on all sides of the industry right now. Even though hiring is projected well into the future, with a cyclical economy and a downtown coming sooner or later, what do you think is the cut off for being hired and feeling comfortable about not being furloughed?

My gut feeling in business aviation is to be in a chair you are happy to sit in for a long time when the music stops at most 12 months from now.

How do the airline guys feel? Is a date of hire one year from now still within the window of feeling secure and protected? Five years?
 

Der_Meister

Well-Known Member
We are clearly in a Goldilocks type period on all sides of the industry right now. Even though hiring is projected well into the future, with a cyclical economy and a downtown coming sooner or later, what do you think is the cut off for being hired and feeling comfortable about not being furloughed?
How do the airline guys feel? Is a date of hire one year from now still within the window of feeling secure and protected? Five years?
I think it would depend on who you get on with or ar with and the number of retirements they have ahead of that. I'd say for UAL, DAL, and AA if you were to get on with either of them you'd be mostly good.

I think as long as you make it before the top of the wave at either of them you'd have a good chance of not wiping out.
 

Autothrust Blue

"I’d make a suggestion but you won’t listen”
How do the airline guys feel? Is a date of hire one year from now still within the window of feeling secure and protected? Five years?
I show up until and unless I'm told not to, that's how I feel about it. I mean, my reading of the tea leaves where I work is that the 10 more hulls coming in 1Q20 secure my position at one year in, along with the breakneck hiring pace that they have announced. But my experience with that is you hire until you suddenly don't anymore, so everyone hang on for dear life and enjoy the ride.
 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
We are clearly in a Goldilocks type period on all sides of the industry right now. Even though hiring is projected well into the future, with a cyclical economy and a downtown coming sooner or later, what do you think is the cut off for being hired and feeling comfortable about not being furloughed?

My gut feeling in business aviation is to be in a chair you are happy to sit in for a long time when the music stops at most 12 months from now.

How do the airline guys feel? Is a date of hire one year from now still within the window of feeling secure and protected? Five years?
It's not about years, it's about percentage up the seniority list.

Outside of Airways, I don't think any airline has furloughed past the 80% mark and survived.
 
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