The pilot shortage and dirtbag 135 outfits

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Remember when jetcareers wasn’t so self righteous, and just answered the question asked?

The way it was explained by him was some “paperwork” issue which I assume to be PRIA. I believe the rule says they have 30 days to respond and whatever the case was, they held on until the last possible second before doing so. It was their way of “screwing” over a guy their perceived to be screwing them by leaving as soon as he did.
Sure, my post could have been stated a little differently, and the delivery been softer. However, your posts in this thread show an obvious lack of understanding of how this process works. Those errors have already been quoted by myself and other members.
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
As I stated in my earlier post...."There are exceptions...…"


Companies CAN afford the training just like the pilots CAN afford it too. The issue isn't whether a person CAN pay it, the issue is which party SHOULD! I don't think the relationship between the cost of the aircraft and the cost training is relevant. If the airplane is relatively inexpensive it's OK to jerk around a pilot?


I agree with THIS!!!


I disagree with you here.
I'm pretty confident that I'm in a Part 91 Unicorn position. There are Companies like this one all over the U.S. This Company is a long-standing one, treats us well, pays well, full benefits, time off, not very many overnights, they pay all expenses required for work, blah....blah....blah.....

In this world of "plenty of pilots", I didn't receive as many pilot resumes as I anticipated. Oh, well...…...

P.S. Still looking for an SIC, BTW...….
It kind of sounds like you work for a unicorn. You still doing EMS?
 

dustoff17

Well-Known Member
It kind of sounds like you work for a unicorn. You still doing EMS?
No, I'm Part 91 now; flying on occasion, spending time with family and loving life. Just Living my Dream. You?

When I was in EMS I was a relief pilot (R&F/W). They didn't have a full-time position so it was part-time, hourly only...no benefits. If they could have come up with a full time job, I would probably still be there. And as far as work satisfaction that gig is towards the top of my list!
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Sure, my post could have been stated a little differently, and the delivery been softer. However, your posts in this thread show an obvious lack of understanding of how this process works. Those errors have already been quoted by myself and other members.

I’ll give you that, not knowing what part NetJets operates under. The part they operate under wand the point, the point was larger Department’s that have a seniority system for furloughs / letting go of guys. I’ve flown with a NetJets guy who was furloughed and came to VX. He said the cut was purely seniority based. Now I can’t speak for the smaller departments like, say, Corning Glass.


The fundamental difference here is that of a difference in opinion. One side is Slum and I, saying we support the Corp entity to have a training contract/agreement. The other side says that pilots can leave less than 12 months, and forget the employer being screwed because their costs are negligible, they should have offered more money, change terms, etc, and that an employer wouldn’t hesitate to let you go if the economy/profits tanked. Or if the Corp jet owner sold the plane.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
I’ll give you that, not knowing what part NetJets operates under. The part they operate under wand the point, the point was larger Department’s that have a seniority system for furloughs / letting go of guys. I’ve flown with a NetJets guy who was furloughed and came to VX. He said the cut was purely seniority based. Now I can’t speak for the smaller departments like, say, Corning Glass.


The fundamental difference here is that of a difference in opinion. One side is Slum and I, saying we support the Corp entity to have a training contract/agreement. The other side says that pilots can leave less than 12 months, and forget the employer being screwed because their costs are negligible, they should have offered more money, change terms, etc, and that an employer wouldn’t hesitate to let you go if the economy/profits tanked. Or if the Corp jet owner sold the plane.
The fundamental difference is you have people that have worked in 135 and 91 and two that haven't.
 

gne in prog

Well-Known Member
I’ll give you that, not knowing what part NetJets operates under. The part they operate under wand the point, the point was larger Department’s that have a seniority system for furloughs / letting go of guys. I’ve flown with a NetJets guy who was furloughed and came to VX. He said the cut was purely seniority based. Now I can’t speak for the smaller departments like, say, Corning Glass.


The fundamental difference here is that of a difference in opinion. One side is Slum and I, saying we support the Corp entity to have a training contract/agreement. The other side says that pilots can leave less than 12 months, and forget the employer being screwed because their costs are negligible, they should have offered more money, change terms, etc, and that an employer wouldn’t hesitate to let you go if the economy/profits tanked. Or if the Corp jet owner sold the plane.
You don’t have to pretend to know something about 135/91.
 

nibake

Powder hound
I signed a training contract going to a company that was a lateral move at best. I didn't and don't think it was unreasonable for a number of reasons:

-It was for 12 months, prorated. If I had wanted to I could have paid it off at any point in time, as it was the equivalent of about 1.5 months wages, not overly burdensome.

-I already lived in the area and had every intention of working at least 12 months, especially since my time at the previous job was cut short due to a base closing, I didn't want to be jumping around.

-If something weird happens out of my control the chances are pretty good that being a small company, they will understand the circumstances. Even if they didn't the effort and headache for them to try to get that amount of money out of me if I wanted to fight it would simply not be worth it.

Having said that, if the contract were for a longer period of time or the amount of money you guys are talking about for Gulfstream types, there is no way I would have signed a contract that didn't have more protections for me in it.
 

nibake

Powder hound
I signed a training contract going to a company that was a lateral move at best. I didn't and don't think it was unreasonable for a number of reasons:

-It was for 12 months, prorated. If I had wanted to I could have paid it off at any point in time, as it was the equivalent of about 1.5 months wages, not overly burdensome.

-I already lived in the area and had every intention of working at least 12 months, especially since my time at the previous job was cut short due to a base closing, I didn't want to be jumping around.

-If something weird happens out of my control the chances are pretty good that being a small company, they will understand the circumstances. Even if they didn't the effort and headache for them to try to get that amount of money out of me if I wanted to fight it would simply not be worth it.

Having said that, if the contract were for a longer period of time or the amount of money you guys are talking about for Gulfstream types, there is no way I would have signed a contract that didn't have more protections for me in it.
One detail I left out: The pay is good enough that it motivates me to stay, and not to leave.
 

averettpilot

Well-Known Member
It’s all about equity in contracts. In general, I don’t sign them because I didn’t get a say in the type of aircraft an operator chooses to utilize. That’s their decision and hopefully they considered the costs associated with it, including training costs. I come to the table with all the prerequisite training required to offer pilot services, along with years of experience. That was my cost. Yours is to provide training on your aircraft, training that is often federally mandated whether I have the type or not. That falls under the cost of doing business. If you want to protect your investment that’s understandable, but do it first by making the job worthwhile, and second by not being lazy in your hiring practices. Fully vet your candidates and make sure this is where they want to be. If after that you still can’t find people that want to stay long term, make the contract so that it is equitable to both parties. The main things I look for are protections for me if the company goes out of business, if I’m disabled or lose my medical, if the company decides to let me go for reasons other than cause (and then you have to prove it), or if the company is in violation of rules and regulations governing the type of operation.

Too often I’ll hear a friend say they signed one and when I ask what the provisions of the contract are they haven’t a clue. They don’t even read it. And because those pilots exist, we will never see an end to these contracts. It’s pretty sad really.
 

Richman

Well-Known Member
A lot of pretty broad brushes here. I know folks from Palm Beach that are generous with their time and money, and these are folks that are several generations rich. Several billions, with a B.
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
A lot of pretty broad brushes here. I know folks from Palm Beach that are generous with their time and money, and these are folks that are several generations rich. Several billions, with a B.
Do you know the equipment, QoL, upgrade, benefits package? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
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