The importance of doing a good flight control check!

bLizZuE

Fly airplanes, drink beer, never at the same time.
#2
I wrote up a CRJ for resistance in the ailerons during the flight control check. They apparently found some cables were binding or rubbing.

Then a crew ferried that airplane to the MX base. :oops:
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
#4
I wrote up a CRJ for resistance in the ailerons during the flight control check. They apparently found some cables were binding or rubbing.

Then a crew ferried that airplane to the MX base. :oops:
I had the elevator stick on a flight control check on a BE20. Cable tension was loose(and I suspect not checked at the last interval) and came off one of the pulleys under the floor, but into the space between the bracket and the wheel, where it bound. If we had taken off, I suspect we'd have gone to the moon followed by a stall/spin.
 

NickH

Dank Meme
#5
I had the elevator stick on a flight control check on a BE20. Cable tension was loose(and I suspect not checked at the last interval) and came off one of the pulleys under the floor, but into the space between the bracket and the wheel, where it bound. If we had taken off, I suspect we'd have gone to the moon followed by a stall/spin.
King Airs, cables and that part of the floor....
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
#6
There was an F-15 accident a few years ago. Crashed on takeoff specifically because of a mechanical mismatch of lines causing the controls to reverse. If there is any “go through the motions” part of the preflight/taxi checks making sure your vote in the aircraft control committee is accurate is probably not the place to do it.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
#7
There was an F-15 accident a few years ago. Crashed on takeoff specifically because of a mechanical mismatch of lines causing the controls to reverse. If there is any “go through the motions” part of the preflight/taxi checks making sure your vote in the aircraft control committee is accurate is probably not the place to do it.
That was the 53rd bird in '95 at Spang. Flight control lines were lacking in their color coding and were hooked up reversed. QA Mx guy didn't catch it. Wasn't caught on the start checklist flight control checks. First takeoff attempt was aborted because something didn't feel right. Second attempt made, rolled out of control and crashed just after getting airborne, killing the pilot. Both Mx guys were made an example of due to an overreaction by the AF having been accused of not making people accountable (the 53rd was the same squadron that had shot down the two US Army UH-60 Blackhawks over northern Iraq less than 1 year prior), and both were charged with negligent homicide; one of them committed suicide on the morning the court martial was slated to begin.

This was a problem the AF had known about for nearly 10 years, with two incidents nearly identical to this one having occurred in '86 and '91 on F-15A/C models, but both incidents were caught, and duly reported. However the AF did nothing to address a change to the system. There was so much idiotic and arguably illegal and unethical behavior the AF undertook during the trial of those two Mx guys, that its pretty shocking. The '86 and '91 occurrences were not allowed to be used in the defense of the Mx guys as a way of showing a known safety trap still existed, the AF did everything it could to make it nearly impossible for the Mx guys to defend themselves. The AF even intercepted and withheld letter to the defendents from a flight safety expert witness who wished to testify to their defense. An absolutely despicable showing of lack of justice and any kind of due process, by the USAF during this whole situation.
 

Zondaracer

Well-Known Member
#9
That was the 53rd bird in '95 at Spang. Flight control lines were lacking in their color coding and were hooked up reversed. QA Mx guy didn't catch it. Wasn't caught on the start checklist flight control checks. First takeoff attempt was aborted because something didn't feel right. Second attempt made, rolled out of control and crashed just after getting airborne, killing the pilot. Both Mx guys were made an example of due to an overreaction by the AF having been accused of not making people accountable (the 53rd was the same squadron that had shot down the two US Army UH-60 Blackhawks over northern Iraq less than 1 year prior), and both were charged with negligent homicide; one of them committed suicide on the morning the court martial was slated to begin.

This was a problem the AF had known about for nearly 10 years, with two incidents nearly identical to this one having occurred in '86 and '91 on F-15A/C models, but both incidents were caught, and duly reported. However the AF did nothing to address a change to the system. There was so much idiotic and arguably illegal and unethical behavior the AF undertook during the trial of those two Mx guys, that its pretty shocking. The '86 and '91 occurrences were not allowed to be used in the defense of the Mx guys as a way of showing a known safety trap still existed, the AF did everything it could to make it nearly impossible for the Mx guys to defend themselves. The AF even intercepted and withheld letter to the defendents from a flight safety expert witness who wished to testify to their defense. An absolutely despicable showing of lack of justice and any kind of due process, by the USAF during this whole situation.
Interesting tidbit, the mother of the F-15 pilot in that crash is Lois Lowry, the author of the children’s novel and film The Giver. The book explores many themes, principally challenging authority, which was inspired by the suicide of the mechanic implicated in the accident of her son.
 

msmspilot

Well-Known Member
#10
Interesting tidbit, the mother of the F-15 pilot in that crash is Lois Lowry, the author of the children’s novel and film The Giver. The book explores many themes, principally challenging authority, which was inspired by the suicide of the mechanic implicated in the accident of her son.
So is it maybe Gathering Blue that was inspired by her son’s death and the mechanic’s suicide? The Giver was published in ‘93.
 

jtsastre

Well-Known Member
#11
That was the 53rd bird in '95 at Spang. Flight control lines were lacking in their color coding and were hooked up reversed. QA Mx guy didn't catch it. Wasn't caught on the start checklist flight control checks. First takeoff attempt was aborted because something didn't feel right. Second attempt made, rolled out of control and crashed just after getting airborne, killing the pilot. Both Mx guys were made an example of due to an overreaction by the AF having been accused of not making people accountable (the 53rd was the same squadron that had shot down the two US Army UH-60 Blackhawks over northern Iraq less than 1 year prior), and both were charged with negligent homicide; one of them committed suicide on the morning the court martial was slated to begin.

This was a problem the AF had known about for nearly 10 years, with two incidents nearly identical to this one having occurred in '86 and '91 on F-15A/C models, but both incidents were caught, and duly reported. However the AF did nothing to address a change to the system. There was so much idiotic and arguably illegal and unethical behavior the AF undertook during the trial of those two Mx guys, that its pretty shocking. The '86 and '91 occurrences were not allowed to be used in the defense of the Mx guys as a way of showing a known safety trap still existed, the AF did everything it could to make it nearly impossible for the Mx guys to defend themselves. The AF even intercepted and withheld letter to the defendents from a flight safety expert witness who wished to testify to their defense. An absolutely despicable showing of lack of justice and any kind of due process, by the USAF during this whole situation.
Never heard this story. It’s awful.
 

Grabo172

Well-Known Member
#12
The flight control check on the ERJ-145 is on my personal list of least info/most important/blind faith thing we do. We unlock the gust lock when cleared onto the runway and perform a freedom of motion check, but the 145 has no flight control position display and of course, you can't physically see any if the control surfaces, so there's no way of telling if the controls are responding properly.

Would it have been so hard to put a flight control position display and sensors on the flight controls, Embraer?
 

JordanD

Honorary Member
#13
The flight control check on the ERJ-145 is on my personal list of least info/most important/blind faith thing we do. We unlock the gust lock when cleared onto the runway and perform a freedom of motion check, but the 145 has no flight control position display and of course, you can't physically see any if the control surfaces, so there's no way of telling if the controls are responding properly.

Would it have been so hard to put a flight control position display and sensors on the flight controls, Embraer?
I've always wondered about that which is weird considering the 170/190 has one of the most detailed flight control screens I've seen. Same with the 737, are you guys basically just checking for freedom of movement?
 

Grabo172

Well-Known Member
#14
I've always wondered about that which is weird considering the 170/190 has one of the most detailed flight control screens I've seen. Same with the 737, are you guys basically just checking for freedom of movement?
Yes, Basically. Checking for proper feel.
 

seagull

Well-Known Member
#15
The flight control check on the ERJ-145 is on my personal list of least info/most important/blind faith thing we do. We unlock the gust lock when cleared onto the runway and perform a freedom of motion check, but the 145 has no flight control position display and of course, you can't physically see any if the control surfaces, so there's no way of telling if the controls are responding properly.

Would it have been so hard to put a flight control position display and sensors on the flight controls, Embraer?
777 is done in the same way. We have the ability to pull up the flight control synoptic but that is not part of the procedure. The system should alert if there is a problem...
 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
#16
The flight control check on the ERJ-145 is on my personal list of least info/most important/blind faith thing we do. We unlock the gust lock when cleared onto the runway and perform a freedom of motion check, but the 145 has no flight control position display and of course, you can't physically see any if the control surfaces, so there's no way of telling if the controls are responding properly.

Would it have been so hard to put a flight control position display and sensors on the flight controls, Embraer?
Didn't know that.
On the crj700 at the same shop it's a part of the taxi checklist and we have a pretty picture to look at. But then again, we also verify we got both engines running on that same checklist and apparently 175 didn't up until now.
 
#17
Takeoff config should catch an engine not running in the 170/190.
I haven’t flown it in a long time, if I’m wrong correct me.
In the Bus, it’s the FO’s job to look at the lower DU and verbalize the flight controls are moving appropriately. They repeat the process silently for his/her side stick.

The whole time my eyeballs are outside taxiing.
 

msmspilot

Well-Known Member
#18
Takeoff config should catch an engine not running in the 170/190.
I haven’t flown it in a long time, if I’m wrong correct me.
In the Bus, it’s the FO’s job to look at the lower DU and verbalize the flight controls are moving appropriately. They repeat the process silently for his/her side stick.

The whole time my eyeballs are outside taxiing.
Takeoff config should catch both engines running on the CRJ too, but people have gotten on the runway with only one...
 

JordanD

Honorary Member
#19
Takeoff config should catch an engine not running in the 170/190.
I haven’t flown it in a long time, if I’m wrong correct me.
In the Bus, it’s the FO’s job to look at the lower DU and verbalize the flight controls are moving appropriately. They repeat the process silently for his/her side stick.

The whole time my eyeballs are outside taxiing.
Flaps, trim, brakes, spoilers. It will gladly give you the "takeoff OK" message with one engine running.
 
Top