Terminal vs. En Route

I'm leaning towards En Route.

What are your opinions on each? Pros? Cons?
ARTCCs were set up to be first facilities, so they have a good training program already in place, so leaning towards going enroute isn't a bad idea.

But if you do decide to go the terminal route I suggest going to a mid level facility (6-10) to learn how to do the job before going to a level 11 or 12, which if you go to right off the bat is basically career suicide.
 

F Slade

New Member
Go terminal option (if offered a choice)
1. More locations, 100's of towers/approach control facilities vs 22 enroute centers.
2. CTO.... Control Tower Operator certificate will offer more post retirement or give the one finger peace sign to the FAA employment opportunities (Contract control towers)
3. You can always transfer to an enroute facility later.

Good luck on your choice.
Frank
 

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
i would rather drag my gonads over a mile of broken glass before i ever step into another center.
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
please. they're going to be catching up to me. :D



i dont know where i'm going yet, but im pretty sure it's detroit :rawk:
good G*d son are you serious? Nice to have confidence, but I really hope you get a clue before you make a serious mistake. Nice knowing ya!
 

pm577

New Member
But if you do decide to go the terminal route I suggest going to a mid level facility (6-10) to learn how to do the job before going to a level 11 or 12, which if you go to right off the bat is basically career suicide.
Well, it seems we don't have much choice in the matter, correct?
Whatever offer I receive at the PEPC, is the one I'll have to take.

(Unless somehow you only selected counties/states with large terminals.)
 

GnW

New Member
good G*d son are you serious? Nice to have confidence, but I really hope you get a clue before you make a serious mistake. Nice knowing ya!
there are a few things that come to mind upon reading that.

1) you probably know what you're talking about... however,

2) the way i look at it is this: it's not an impossible task. i'm intelligent, confident, and almost anything i try, someone dumber than me has gone through it before...and succeeded. trying is the largest factor. not everything is depends on effort, but im willing to bet a lot more "talented but lazy" guys have washed out than "average and dedicated."

3) thirdly, my biggest motivator is people telling me i "cant" do something, or that i'll likely fail. i went through it in marine OCS and on countless other occassions. sometimes a guy fails, but if he tries hard enough, he can keep it to a minimum.

4) lazy, indecisive people lead to pissed off, judgmental peers and superiors. if a guy is on the edge and nobody can say anything but "he has his nose in the 7110 every time i walk in the break room" his likelihood of getting the boot falls substantially. he might even get hearded out to gentler pastures instead of a boot in the ass and "good riddance."

5) i don't want things to be easy. i want the firehose right off the bat, 8000RPMs the whole race. i want to be put in difficult, uncomfortable situations and whip the #### out of them and make them cry all the way home to mother. and then go curl up in a little ball when my shift is over.:drool:

6) i cant afford to wait any longer. the deadline for a flight slot in the marines is 25. im 23. i want to give it a shot. if i can't hack it, no hard feelings... i'll be off to do some ground pounding before my headset hits the deck. if i get a low-level facility, i'll give that a go too. but whatever i get, im taking it.

just a little bit of what's been going through my head. yes, i can come off as a little arrogant. but that's not to say i dont have realistic views on things. :)
 
there are a few things that come to mind upon reading that.

1) you probably know what you're talking about... however,

2) the way i look at it is this: it's not an impossible task. i'm intelligent, confident, and almost anything i try, someone dumber than me has gone through it before...and succeeded I hear you, never failed at anything in my life, went to college at 15, etc and he still is telling me to go to a mid-level facility because it's not about the effort or intelligence it's having that certain type of intelligence that you need as an ATC. And I gaurantee you that you won't find dumb/incompetant people at level 11 or 12 facilities that have succeeded. trying is the largest factor. not everything is depends on effort, but im willing to bet a lot more "talented but lazy" guys have washed out than "average and dedicated." Not true, guys who have been at other facilities, such as ORD and the like have washed out of the top facilities, it's not the amount of effort it's knowing what you're doing and the best place to learn is at a facility without a million aircrafts passing through the airspace in a day.

3) thirdly, my biggest motivator is people telling me i "cant" do something, or that i'll likely fail. i went through it in marine OCS and on countless other occassions. sometimes a guy fails, but if he tries hard enough, he can keep it to a minimum. Being someone who HATES being told I can't do something, I'm just going to take ATL's word for it this time around. Besides what's the hurry? You've got a 25 year career ahead of you do you need to get to the top immediately? Enjoy the journey, as I've been told.

4) lazy, indecisive people lead to pissed off, judgmental peers and superiors True. if a guy is on the edge and nobody can say anything but "he has his nose in the 7110 every time i walk in the break room" his likelihood of getting the boot falls substantially You understand that they only give you a certain amount of hours to train and once you've used those up you're out of there no matter how hard you studied. But, you're right the trainers appreciate a trainee who studies on their breaks rather than shooting the s*** and watching TV, but when it comes down to holding your job all that is irrelevant. he might even get hearded out to gentler pastures instead of a boot in the ass and "good riddance." That only happens when you terminate your training and have been certified previously at another facility, not so for new hires trying to check out.

5) i don't want things to be easy. i want the firehose right off the bat, 8000RPMs the whole race. i want to be put in difficult, uncomfortable situations and whip the #### out of them and make them cry all the way home to mother That might just be you after you've started yourself at a level 11. and then go curl up in a little ball when my shift is over That's a probability, lol.:drool:

6) i cant afford to wait any longer. the deadline for a flight slot in the marines is 25. im 23. i want to give it a shot. if i can't hack it, no hard feelings... i'll be off to do some ground pounding before my headset hits the deck. if i get a low-level facility, i'll give that a go too. but whatever i get, im taking it.

just a little bit of what's been going through my head. yes, i can come off as a little arrogant. but that's not to say i dont have realistic views on things. Where do you get your realistic view on controlling traffic at a high level terminal facility, if I may ask? It's seems a little idealistic to me, but that's just my opinion. :)
 

GnW

New Member
Spend 8 months in the DYSIM watching rookie controllers screw up and get back to me.
 

GnW

New Member
Well, it seems we don't have much choice in the matter, correct?
Whatever offer I receive at the PEPC, is the one I'll have to take.

(Unless somehow you only selected counties/states with large terminals.)
same boat, brother. give em hell
 

HiDef

New Member
"he might even get hearded out to gentler pastures instead of a boot in the ass and "good riddance." That only happens when you terminate your training and have been certified previously at another facility, not so for new hires trying to check out."

Fact: The FAA is letting SOME people resign and reapply even though they were about to be training failures. Didn't matter if they were prior CPC's or not.
 

GnW

New Member
"he might even get hearded out to gentler pastures instead of a boot in the ass and "good riddance." That only happens when you terminate your training and have been certified previously at another facility, not so for new hires trying to check out."

Fact: The FAA is letting SOME people resign and reapply even though they were about to be training failures. Didn't matter if they were prior CPC's or not.
yep. pretty sure they did it a month or two ago at my facility with someone who could work traffic well... just couldnt work THAT MUCH traffic.
 

jamcan162

New Member
there are a few things that come to mind upon reading that.

1) you probably know what you're talking about... however,

2) the way i look at it is this: it's not an impossible task. i'm intelligent, confident, and almost anything i try, someone dumber than me has gone through it before...and succeeded. trying is the largest factor. not everything is depends on effort, but im willing to bet a lot more "talented but lazy" guys have washed out than "average and dedicated."--well said

3) thirdly, my biggest motivator is people telling me i "cant" do something, or that i'll likely fail. i went through it in marine OCS and on countless other occassions. sometimes a guy fails, but if he tries hard enough, he can keep it to a minimum.--i hear ya. tell me i cant, and i will.

4) lazy, indecisive people lead to pissed off, judgmental peers and superiors.--seriously, lots of griping in the ATC world if a guy is on the edge and nobody can say anything but "he has his nose in the 7110 every time i walk in the break room" his likelihood of getting the boot falls substantially. he might even get hearded out to gentler pastures instead of a boot in the ass and "good riddance."

5) i don't want things to be easy. i want the firehose right off the bat, 8000RPMs the whole race. i want to be put in difficult, uncomfortable situations and whip the #### out of them and make them cry all the way home to mother. and then go curl up in a little ball when my shift is over.:drool:--if its easy, is it worth it?

6) i cant afford to wait any longer. the deadline for a flight slot in the marines is 25. im 23. i want to give it a shot. if i can't hack it, no hard feelings... i'll be off to do some ground pounding before my headset hits the deck. if i get a low-level facility, i'll give that a go too. but whatever i get, im taking it.

just a little bit of what's been going through my head. yes, i can come off as a little arrogant. but that's not to say i dont have realistic views on things. :)
lets go annoy some people...work hard and be happy
 
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