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TCAS RA question

Discussion in 'Pilot-Controller Questions' started by NovemberEcho, Apr 10, 2017.

  1. NovemberEcho

    NovemberEcho Well-Known Member

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    That's what I thought which is why I don't think the Aeromexico had anything to do with TCAS development as it wouldn't have prevented that.
     
  2. adk

    adk Steals Hotel Toilet Paper

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    Perhaps it had something to do with the mode C veil? To be honest I have no idea when it came about.
     
  3. NovemberEcho

    NovemberEcho Well-Known Member

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    I'd always heard the PSA midair was the driving factor
     
  4. Roger Roger

    Roger Roger Navajo Whisperer

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    Yes I believe that to be correct.
     
  5. NovemberEcho

    NovemberEcho Well-Known Member

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    I'll be honest I just had to look up Mode C Veil and that is definitely not adhered to by many many GA pilots. At least here in NY.
     
  6. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

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    TCAS requires a transponder. In LAX, the rules back in 1986 were different and the airspace was different shape TCA. Today's Class Bravo is different and the transponder requirements in Class B and the 30 nm mode C veil. With these requirements and equipment today, the TCAS would have alerted the crew of Aeromexico 498.
     
  7. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

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    ?

    The only two Class B airports in NY that I know are LGA and JFK. If you're operating within 30nm veil of these two airports, you need a transponder.
     
  8. bimmerphile

    bimmerphile SuperCriticalâ„¢ Member

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    Could be a difference of having one and not knowing whether or not it's operational.

    My best RA was over Tampa at around 15.5k doing survey. I was going back and forth between tracon and center, when apparently the altimeter encoder for Mode C took a bit of a dump, about 1nm east of TPA. I see the transponder display my altitude up to 440, and then down to 012. As I key the mic to say something, center tells me to check my altitude because I had set off an RA of an aircraft on their final.

    Oops.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
     
  9. NovemberEcho

    NovemberEcho Well-Known Member

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    Ok technically NJ but EWR. We have plenty of aircraft that operate within 30nm of EWR without a transponder (or an inop one)
     
  10. NovemberEcho

    NovemberEcho Well-Known Member

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    I thought on the Aeromexico one the ATC only showed a primary target, no transponder at all. I could be mistaken though.
     
  11. Flyinthrew

    Flyinthrew Well-Known Member

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    My Hobby: Flying this portion of the VR-084 for every CRJ arrival at OAJ.

    Screen Shot 2017-05-11 at 5.15.21 PM.jpg
     
  12. DE727UPS

    DE727UPS Well-Known Member

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    I knew the controller working Aero Mexico and worked at the facility just prior to the incident. The Cherokee was in the TCA where he shouldn't have been and only had a mode/A transponder. The controller was busy and didn't point out the target assuming it wasn't in the TCA. Just prior to the crash the controller encountered another TCA violator. As I recall, this happened so regularly that the supes didn't bother much with enforcement. Perhaps a FSDO guy in the facility would have helped? Nah, nobody's got money for that....

    Mode C transponders and TCAS have made the skies much safer. There was a cargo cutout for TCAS, too, back in the day. http://aviationweek.com/awin/pilot-unions-ask-tcas-cargo-aircraft
     
  13. NovemberEcho

    NovemberEcho Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I had always thought it was primary only but I guess I was wrong.

    Trivia: did you know on Breaking Bad, Walter White was named after that controller as foreshadowing for a certain event in the show?
     
  14. Cptnchia

    Cptnchia Well-Known Member

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    Initial approach altitude at ELLAS is 2100 ft. GOLLA is 8.5 miles from ELLAS and also has an altitude restriction of 2100 ft. You guys are flying VR084 at what, 500 feet? I watch you guys all the time. Where VR 084 crosses Hwy 17 right after the turn NNW from going feet dry, look to your right. The idiot jumping up and gown in the yard, waving his arms over his head is me. :bounce:
     
  15. Flyinthrew

    Flyinthrew Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know you lived around here. Yeah we can't be below a 1000 within a mile of the coast, and need to cross feet dry at 2000 for some dumb reason or other but then usually down to 500 or sometimes 300. Thing is, the route top is about 3500 so you can get traffic on the route at 450 knots crossing the approach corridor who isn't talking to approach. I've flown under Aceys and Blue Streaks at that exact spot a few times now, but it hasn't been a 500' pass..
     
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  16. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

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    The Piper did come up on the ATC screens, but it was somewhat last moment, and at that point the controller was dealing with another intruder in the TCA. The Air Crash Investigations TV episode did this episode and seems to explain it fairly well.
     
  17. NovemberEcho

    NovemberEcho Well-Known Member

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    It was that episode that made me think it was a primary target only with no transponder lol. A primary target is just a dot on our scope
     
  18. N90-EWR

    N90-EWR Well-Known Member

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    You have much to learn young grasshopper!
     
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  19. Autothrust Blue

    Autothrust Blue "This is a God damn waste of time!"

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    I wish it was still called a TCA; very descriptive.
     
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  20. N90-EWR

    N90-EWR Well-Known Member

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    Me too! It took me several years to fully get comfortable saying "cleared into NY class bravo" as opposed to "cleared into NY TCA"
     

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