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Taxi Instructions

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
#23
Everyone is wrong!

I Google Earthed the airport and find very few Hold Short markings on the south east side of the airport.

It appears that part of Bravo, Lima and Kilo are all in the non-movement area. You are on your own. Assuming your path was Lima, cross Bravo to the ramp, I'd question there was even a need to contact Ground after clearing the runway.

Outbound you can taxi Lima, Bravo all the way to the 35R run-up pad and never talk to ATC. This is ATC saying "We got no time for GA!" Maybe the view from the tower is blocked?
 
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jweldon

Well-Known Member
#24
Everyone is wrong!

I Google Earthed the airport and find very few Hold Short markings on the south east side of the airport.

It appears that part of Bravo, Lima and Kilo are all in the non-movement area. You are on your own. Assuming your path was Lima, cross Bravo to the ramp, I'd question there was even a need to contact Ground after clearing the runway.

Outbound you can taxi Lima, Bravo all the way to the 35R run-up pad and never talk to ATC. This is ATC saying "We got no time for GA!" Maybe the view from the tower is blocked?
Safety and ops permitting I’ll take a picture next time. I think your second to last point is probably right, but the movement area starts on kilo Lima and November. Not sure if it’s the poor resolution or when they resurfaced but for now all I’ve got to prove that it’s a movement area is my word. Also they have visibility along the edge of the ramp and to the east including all of the movement area.

Like you said though I think they just don’t care. I’ve been told twice since I originally posted to taxi to the runway via bravo, which is the same problem but in reverse :/
 

inigo88

Composite-lover
#25
Everyone is wrong!

I Google Earthed the airport and find very few Hold Short markings on the south east side of the airport.

It appears that part of Bravo, Lima and Kilo are all in the non-movement area. You are on your own. Assuming your path was Lima, cross Bravo to the ramp, I'd question there was even a need to contact Ground after clearing the runway.

Outbound you can taxi Lima, Bravo all the way to the 35R run-up pad and never talk to ATC. This is ATC saying "We got no time for GA!" Maybe the view from the tower is blocked?
This sounded a little too fishy so I just took a look also. There's no discernible non-movement area boundary markings at the ramp (yellow solid line AND yellow dashed line). There are numerous single yellow dashed lines at various taxiway intersections along taxiway Alpha. I had to google these, but apparently they are "Taxiway holding position markings" - in other words they are marked in common locations where tower may instruct an airplane to hold short of another taxiway. I've never really noticed these before but I also haven't been looking that closely.

I know you're a former ATC'er so I wouldn't dream of correcting you ;), but is there a chance that's what you were seeing? Operationally I don't think it makes a lot of sense to make one of the two parallel taxiways a non-movement area all the way up to the end of Rwy 35R.
 

inigo88

Composite-lover
#26
Like you said though I think they just don’t care. I’ve been told twice since I originally posted to taxi to the runway via bravo, which is the same problem but in reverse :/
I think this practice is contrary to FAA order 7110.65 but pretty common at bigger airports. By omitting the taxiway from the ramp to bravo, they're telling you they don't care which taxiway you take into/out of the ramp as long as you join bravo to 35R.

Listen to JFK Ground on liveatc sometime and you'll hear it immediately.

JFK GND: "JetBlue 123 what taxiway do you enta da ramp?"
JBU123: "DA, JetBlue 123."
JFK GND: "Left alpha to da raaaaamp!"
 

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
#27
Same airport, look at the other side. You'll see more standard hold short bars between the airline terminal and 35L.

It's goofy but I think many of the taxiways on the 35R side are non-movement areas.

Would I taxi Atlantic to 35R without calling ground? Never, but I think it's legal.
 

inigo88

Composite-lover
#28
Same airport, look at the other side. You'll see more standard hold short bars between the airline terminal and 35L.

It's goofy but I think many of the taxiways on the 35R side are non-movement areas.

Would I taxi Atlantic to 35R without calling ground? Never, but I think it's legal.
All I see in that area is this:

IMG_5750.JPG


I see the non-movement area boundaries from the terminal ramp on taxiways G1, G2, G3 and R. Everything east of the terminal on taxiways G and H until they meet B are single dashed yellow lines only, those "taxiway holding position markings."

I'm not about to start an A.net debate over it though, so maybe we'll just have to do like Ron Burgandy and agree to disagree.

 
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#29
I assume that's what he meant but I wanted to check. I hate it when I upset controllers, especially in a Cessna at a Charlie airport :oops:
Everyone has a bad day. Last weekend "Hey, first time here - just making sure I'm lined up on 10 for the visual.." "Yeah, was just about to tell you, it isn't marked, keep the big hangar to your left." Sounding friendly usually doesn't make things worse.
 

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
#30
All I see in that area is this:

View attachment 41994

I see the non-movement area boundaries from the terminal ramp on taxiways G1, G2, G3 and R. Everything east of the terminal on taxiways G and H until they meet B are single dashed yellow lines only, those "taxiway holding position markings."
I'm saying there isn't a way out of the air carrier terminal without crossing a set of these. Not so on the GA side.

Untitled.png


Untitled.png
 

Landis

Well-Known Member
#31
I'm saying there isn't a way out of the air carrier terminal without crossing a set of these. Not so on the GA side.

View attachment 42001

View attachment 42002
I thought you were joking. Ok, so take an airliner and depart the terminal. We're in the non-movement area so no need to call ground to push or taxi around in the non-movement area. Now we call ground and get clearance to taxi to runway 35R. We enter the movement area and are under ATC control until where? Without another set of them super swanky little bars, the entire area is under ATC control. Not the other way around.
 

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
#32
I thought you were joking. Ok, so take an airliner and depart the terminal. We're in the non-movement area so no need to call ground to push or taxi around in the non-movement area. Now we call ground and get clearance to taxi to runway 35R. We enter the movement area and are under ATC control until where? Without another set of them super swanky little bars, the entire area is under ATC control. Not the other way around.
No, the GA side. Atlantic to 35R. Google Earth is your friend.
 

Landis

Well-Known Member
#35
Because you left the terminal, crossed in to the non-movement area and never went back over a non-movement line. Or are you saying that when I'm taxiing an airliner from the terminal to 35R I have somehow magically entered another non-movement area as I taxi down A or B? My argument looking at the Google maps imagery would be that the entire GA area is in an ATC controlled movement area. Or the imagery was captured after the repaving and prior to painting the non-movement lines. But as it is now, everything at that field with the exception of the airline ramp is an ATC movement area.
 

fholbert

Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
#38
Because they're taxiways and not taxilanes.
And there is absolutely zero chance that Austin airport has that much pavement that would be considered non-movement.
I found this test question. It came from the:
AUSTIN STRAUBEL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT
NON-MOVEMENT AREA DRIVING TEST

Untitled.png
 
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greg1016

Trustworthy Source
#40
I thought you were joking. Ok, so take an airliner and depart the terminal. We're in the non-movement area so no need to call ground to push or taxi around in the non-movement area. Now we call ground and get clearance to taxi to runway 35R. We enter the movement area and are under ATC control until where? Without another set of them super swanky little bars, the entire area is under ATC control. Not the other way around.
The best way to find the answer to this is to call the tower and ask, but I would agree with this, looks like the GA ramp is ALL movement area, not zero movement area, so call ground before you pull out of parking.

On the flip side, I would agree if you aren't given a turn off taxiway to take, it means the controller doesn't care which one you take. That, however, does not excuse a rude response if you ask for clarification.