Suck it, you 121 hacks

BEEF SUPREME

Well-Known Member
85 grand or so is what I'm hearing.

*I'm not arguing that Corporate is better than 121. Long term, 121 exceeds corporate by a large margin. I'm just providing the realities of what the lack of qualified pilots has affected the corporate side of the industry.

Look at all the open positions open...and this is a reputable company. If you look at Jet Aviation or EJM, you'd see the same. These are the "unicorn" organizations to be employed by....

I spoke with Solaris and they were offering PIC pay in the low 60’s for a Citation based in Napa.

That was when I decided to go to SkyWest. Zero regrets about my career choices since then.


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KLB

Well-Known Member
I spoke with Solaris and they were offering PIC pay in the low 60’s for a Citation based in Napa.

That was when I decided to go to SkyWest. Zero regrets about my career choices since then.


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How long ago was that again? You've been with Skywest for some time. And to be honest, you are known as the extremely jaded corporate pilot throughout the internets. I mean you're infamous for it.
 

BEEF SUPREME

Well-Known Member
How long ago was that again? You've been with Skywest for some time. And to be honest, you are known as the extremely jaded corporate pilot throughout the internets. I mean you're infamous for it.
Haha OK. I was at SkyWest for about a year and now I’m at a different regional with 737s

I took about a year off from aviation after not getting time off for the birth of my first child. When I left the Falcon 900 spot. About a year later, I spoke with Solaris and that conversation made my mind up about leaving 91/135 forever. Or maybe it was the HWD based X operator... regardless SkyWest is still my favorite job. It was winter 2016/2017 IIRC

I learned to love aviation again thanks to SkyWest and I only wish I’d done it sooner.


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MikeOH58

Well-Known Member
85 grand or so is what I'm hearing.

*I'm not arguing that Corporate is better than 121. Long term, 121 exceeds corporate by a large margin. I'm just providing the realities of what the lack of qualified pilots has affected the corporate side of the industry.

Look at all the open positions open...and this is a reputable company. If you look at Jet Aviation or EJM, you'd see the same. These are the "unicorn" organizations to be employed by....

Managed by Jet or EJM does not mean the position isn’t going to be crap, it literally varies account to account.

That said, year one large cabin base salary at any of the large management companies is going to be starting in the mid 200’s.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - if you want to have a good career in business aviation, you really should be trying to get yourself in a Part 91 only, in-production and large cabin business jet.

If you are flying a citation anything, hawker, Challenger 601, GIV etc and aren’t either trying to move to the airlines or move into what I mentioned above you are simply out of touch with the industry in my opinion.
 
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Richman

Well-Known Member
All the talk about unicorn corpy gigs making 200-300k. Hope you fit in well with the group there. I can't imagine showing up and then finding out one guy is an absolute D-bag and a PITA to fly with. At the airlines when you have thousands of pilots, chances are you'll probably not see the dbag for a long while. At corporate, it could be every day at the office.

I flew with a CA at VX whose wife was a corpie for Boeing Corporate in Gary, IN. The story he shared was shocking, long story short, a screwup that was a group screwup was pinned solely on her and she was made to be the bad guy (even though one senior guy there was primarily responsible for the mistake). But the lamb had been chosen and it sure wasn't gonna be him. She quit and went to Atlas.
Ahhh yes, the bro zone poop grenade.

All you can do is quit and hope the temporal distance puts you out of range when the poop grenade from “the bro” goes off.
 

KLB

Well-Known Member
Managed by Jet or EJM does not mean the position isn’t going to be crap, it literally varies account to account.

That said, year one large cabin base salary at any of the large management companies is going to be starting in the mid 200’s.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - if you want to have a good career in business aviation, you really should be trying to get yourself in a Part 91 only, in-production and large cabin business jet.

If you are flying a citation anything, hawker, Challenger 601, GIV etc and aren’t either trying to move to the airlines or move into what I mentioned above you are simply out of touch with the industry in my opinion.
I agree with you 100%. Like said above. I'm not a corporate apologist. All the guys that I came up with that are doing 121 are doing big things and I'm extremely happy for them all. This is a great time to be a pilot. When the 121 gigs are doing well, everyone is doing well. The 121 hiring boom and lack of pilots is having a humongous ripple effect throughout the industry. And I'm taking advantage of it.

That does not mean that I wouldn't go 121 one of these days though.
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
I get the at least partially humorous tone. But you know me, ol' cantankerous stick in the mud - I just have to jump in to point out that, uh, yes, YES the filthy rich DO spend money. They spend lots, and lots, and lots of money, to include spending money on such outrageously UNECONOMIC baubles as PRIVATE JETS. The outrageously rich will spend money profligately on almost anydam'dthang, EXCEPT ANOTHER HUMAN BEING, even if that human being is the guy or gal occasionally engaged to keep said filthy rich folk from peril.
They do spend money, just like anyone else that lives within their means. Spending less than their making. The other day I parked next a three private Boeings at the same place. The 757 was one owner, the 767 & 777 were another. The FBO told me that they have small stuff too (Gulfstreams & helicopters). Clearly that owner is doing alright, and spending money. No idea how the department is run, or pays, or the QoL but running wide body Boeings is pretty strong.
 

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
They do spend money, just like anyone else that lives within their means. Spending less than their [they're] making.
Within their means? What means?

And by what accounting method?

The kind that allows your financially responsible exemplars to go broke and then have the public bail them out?

The kind that doesn't charge those Boeing owners for the cost of the infrastructure required to operate those Boeings, but rather passes those costs to the public?

The kind that completely ignores the costs of the pollution those Boeings create, and if those costs are ever posted, passes those costs too along to the public?

Or the kind that allows those Boeing owners to create complex, obfuscating financial arrangements that hide the debt used to acquire those Boeings (no, Francis, those planes are rarely, if ever acquired "bought" the same way you or I might go out and buy a refrigerator), and then provides tax breaks on those debts?

Or the kind that allows those Boeing owners first to defang our tax authority, and then to manipulate it to support such magical thinking as the idea that a 25 year asset can be fully depreciated within 12 months?
 

MikeOH58

Well-Known Member
I agree with you 100%. Like said above. I'm not a corporate apologist. All the guys that I came up with that are doing 121 are doing big things and I'm extremely happy for them all. This is a great time to be a pilot. When the 121 gigs are doing well, everyone is doing well. The 121 hiring boom and lack of pilots is having a humongous ripple effect throughout the industry. And I'm taking advantage of it.

That does not mean that I wouldn't go 121 one of these days though.
I'm not opposed to going 121 either but as I'm just wrapping up year one in my current position well into the 2's before bonus, 60 RON including two recurrent's and absolutely no reason to believe this job couldn't last until retirement based on the principals age and net worth, I just don't see any compelling reasons to take the gigantic pay cut for the eventual advantages 121 might offer. I do miss world wide operations - Caribbean/Central America doesn't really count, but other than that I couldn't be happier. Do I have a "unicorn" job? I don't think so as I know plenty of corporate pilots with similar levels of happiness. Do what makes you happy, who cares what FAR it's regulated under.
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Within their means? What means?

And by what accounting method?

The kind that allows your financially responsible exemplars to go broke and then have the public bail them out?

The kind that doesn't charge those Boeing owners for the cost of the infrastructure required to operate those Boeings, but rather passes those costs to the public?

The kind that completely ignores the costs of the pollution those Boeings create, and if those costs are ever posted, passes those costs too along to the public?

Or the kind that allows those Boeing owners to create complex, obfuscating financial arrangements that hide the debt used to acquire those Boeings (no, Francis, those planes are rarely, if ever acquired "bought" the same way you or I might go out and buy a refrigerator), and then provides tax breaks on those debts?

Or the kind that allows those Boeing owners first to defang our tax authority, and then to manipulate it to support such magical thinking as the idea that a 25 year asset can be fully depreciated within 12 months?
Ah, you got me on the spelling error. Whether I agree or disagree with you on the differences with those economic points, I was referring to the type of owner that lives on a Citation budget but tries to own a Gulfstream. Just like the middle and lower class. Just like those that can comfortably drive a Honda but rather struggle to pay for the BMW/MB instead.

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knot4u

Repeat Offender
Ah, you got me on the spelling error. Whether I agree or disagree with you on the differences with those economic points, I was referring to the type of owner that lives on a Citation budget but tries to own a Gulfstream. Just like the middle and lower class. Just like those that can comfortably drive a Honda but rather struggle to pay for the BMW/MB instead.

View attachment 50702
There are some crappy owners, but in my experience it's normally some shady management company that convinces an unsuspecting prospect that they can actually afford a Gulfstream. Realistically doing it right is going to cost around $2M/year with no return on that money. But what do I know, I'm just a dumb mechanic.
 

Richman

Well-Known Member
There are some crappy owners, but in my experience it's normally some shady management company that convinces an unsuspecting prospect that they can actually afford a Gulfstream. Realistically doing it right is going to cost around $2M/year with no return on that money. But what do I know, I'm just a dumb mechanic.
"Management Companies" of all kinds tell owners all kinds of stuff. Unless "ownership" knows better, once the management/consulting companies start sniffing around, you'd best update your resume.
 

Jimmy_Norton

Opie killer
I was trying pretty hard to get on at a major when a primo 91 job kind of landed in my lap. I now have no desire to go to the majors. We'll see if I change my mind in a few years, or regret making that choice, but I am pretty damn happy right now, and this job has lots of potential. There is some BS associated with it, but every job has some form of BS. I won't make $400k a year working here, but according to teh interwebs, I make 98% more than the average American. The other guy I fly with is awesome, and the airplane owner is awesome. I know my schedule pretty far in advance, and when I want to take vacation, I take vacation. Not that we have a tough schedule, the airplane will probably fly 150 hours this year, and I don't see it changing much next year. 95% of it is domestic, the other 5% is the Bahamas.

But I never judge anyone for wanting to be in a particular segment of aviation. Everyone is wired different, and what appeals to me probably wouldn't appeal to you.
 
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