STAR Speed Restriction- CLT

nabbyfan

Well-Known Member
Lol missed that key part. I highly doubt anyone is actually getting violated for this. Maybe a phone number to call, but that’s not being violated.
I think most pilots don’t understand that when they get the “number”, they’re normally just talking to our area FLM or even a CIC who will explain like why what they did negatively impacted us and what we were looking for. The only time the front desk and the big bosses start looking at stuff is if you caused an airspace violation or loss of separation.

The FAA can’t even discipline their own....at my facility there’s people Non Op because they lost their security clearance due to a pending Felony Fraud case where they helped embezzle over $4M from the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. They haven’t worked traffic in over 2 years, yet still somehow count in our staffing numbers and make a cool $150k to literally show up and stay out of everyone’s way. If those people are fine, At least in my airspace, I think a pilot going 20 knots slow on arrival will be fine, is my point I guess.
 

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
That's pretty sad. I was afraid that would happen. I have watched CFIs all over the country the last few years flying patterns wider than a B52. Now their products are flying jets and screwing up the flow as well.

I have left the pattern a few times in SELs because guys were flying patterns so wide. Any competent pilot in a jet aircraft should have no trouble dog legging as you put it, or intercepting final ~3nm out. If they need a 15 mile straight in VFR pattern, they probably shouldn't be in the seat. I am all about safety and being stabile. But if it takes that much room thats pretty sad. Even IFR, someone show be able to intercept within a mile of the FAF in a stabilized fashion.

We are still trained to circle at mins within ~2.5 nm and still make a stabilized landing. Maybe it's the old freight dog in me, but 15 mile final....sheesh.
I havent seen someone voluntarily turn a 3 miles final, outside a charted approach, in a long time.
 

NJA_Capt

Well-Known Member
I havent seen someone voluntarily turn a 3 miles final, outside a charted approach, in a long time.
Try it. It doesn't hurt ;) (As a disclaimer: We do have FOQA, so if we don't meet stabilized criteria, we will get a phone call.)

It used to be basic airmanship. "~250 to the marker" wasn't unheard of. Today, I doubt many could do that and still be stabilized at ~500/~1000'. It seems the watering-down, if you will, began with the rapid expansion of the RJs in the early 2000s. First I noticed it around ERJ hubs for Continental Express (CLE and IAH). We started getting slowed to 170 kts and loooooooooong finals. Now it is practically everywhere. Where we were previously vectored to intercept the LOC between the FAF and the intermediate fix, now is the IAF and intermediate fix. Personally, I would have liked pilots to be held to higher proficiency than the ATC procedures being written for the lowest common denominator.
 

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
Try it. It doesn't hurt ;) (As a disclaimer: We do have FOQA, so if we don't meet stabilized criteria, we will get a phone call.)

It used to be basic airmanship. "~250 to the marker" wasn't unheard of. Today, I doubt many could do that and still be stabilized at ~500/~1000'. It seems the watering-down, if you will, began with the rapid expansion of the RJs in the early 2000s. First I noticed it around ERJ hubs for Continental Express (CLE and IAH). We started getting slowed to 170 kts and loooooooooong finals. Now it is practically everywhere. Where we were previously vectored to intercept the LOC between the FAF and the intermediate fix, now is the IAF and intermediate fix. Personally, I would have liked pilots to be held to higher proficiency than the ATC procedures being written for the lowest common denominator.
I think your disdain is misguided.
 
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