1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Split Duty/Stand-up History

Discussion in 'Airline Pilots' started by bc2209, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. tcco94

    tcco94 Professional GTA V Pilot

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,037
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    I guess from my perspective, it sucks being junior and getting crappy stuff....but that's all part of the industry. It would be really odd listening to junior pilots complain about pretty much anything schedule wise with part 117 (compared to stories I've heard when it wasn't around).
     
  2. Yakob

    Yakob Grand Prognosticator Nominee

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    340
    Well getting crappy stuff is one thing, but getting stuff that makes it difficult for you to be properly rested and makes it so you are likely to be fatigued on duty is quite another.

    I have to say though, I've never minded stand-ups. But then I fly a turboprop, so the legs are always short and unless you are delayed on departure there is a decent amount of time at the hotel. The reports in this thread of CDOs with bare minimum rest because of the length of flight time make me realize an advantage of turboprop flying I hadn't considered.
     
  3. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2001
    Messages:
    8,751
    Likes Received:
    3,850
    Feb 2008 Pinnacle standup DTW-DAY. Sounds short and simple enough? Diversion to CMH. Of course no one on the ground has a clue what to do approaching midnight. Get a FBO to fuel and give us paperwork. Takeoff, land at DAY. Go to hotel. Guess how long we had behind the door that night? I shoulda used a plank wood across the seats on the CR2 and camped Mesa style. Would have got at least another 1 hr sleep...
     
  4. tcco94

    tcco94 Professional GTA V Pilot

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,037
    Likes Received:
    1,378
    Yeah, I will say some stand ups are built pretty poorly. Some are built almost like a normal overnight (as far as sleep is concerned). I've only done a few but they go very senior at my domicile. I don't like them personally but don't see a huge threat in them. Most people learn how to adjust for the sleep on stand ups. Doing multiple in a row could be a bit of a threat.
     
  5. thevideographer

    thevideographer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,106
    Likes Received:
    773
    I like them but doing 4-5 in a row really messes with your brain because you completely lose track of what day it is when you're only sleeping 4 hours at time.
     
  6. Adler

    Adler Low-Level Individual

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    4,740
    Likes Received:
    7,365
    The 200 seats fit just perfectly over the aisle to create a 5 across bed.
     
    Autothrust Blue, adk and B767 like this.
  7. B767

    B767 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,076
    Likes Received:
    1,579
    It was the same on the 145. Pull a cushion from another row and rest it in the aisle on the parts of the metal frame that were exposed.
     
  8. adk

    adk Steals Hotel Toilet Paper

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    479
    Pro Tip - fasten a seatbelt across the aisle before you put the seat cushion on top for extra support!
     
    Skåning likes this.
  9. Richman

    Richman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    3,808
    Hold on there Professor....SOME of them went senior. like DTW-TVC; where the block time was :30 and you had 7:55 rest.

    DTW-EWR? Yea not so senior.

    Probably ok, in some way; like freight. If you prepped for it and made the proper adjustments.

    OTOH, some guys might use them as a way to burn the candle at both ends. Their call, but not the way I like to roll. I still need 9 hours solid, same as I did when I was 17.
     
  10. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2001
    Messages:
    8,751
    Likes Received:
    3,850
    Feb '08 was only my 2nd month off IOE. I learned the above a little bit later :)
     
    Adler likes this.
  11. amorris311

    amorris311 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    6,418
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    @L-16B and I want to congratulate you on the upgrade! ;)
     
  12. Kingairer

    Kingairer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2002
    Messages:
    5,877
    Likes Received:
    2,740
    3 in a row, good to go, but no more. My criteria was (as if it mattered) that the flight needed to be under 1 hour. As long as everything went well they were great. Add in a departure delay and some de-icing and your 7 or 8 hours behind the door could become 4 or 5, no good. Whatever the stand-up, they are way way better than any transcon redeye.
     
  13. N519AT

    N519AT Ahh! This is how I change this!

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    3,091
    Likes Received:
    434
    Had quite a few bad standups at my former turboprop airline...

    Bid my first month of standups about 8 months in because it was either that or reserve. This was pre-117

    One of the first ones I did was supposed to be CLE-ERI, 8 hours behind the door at the hotel and ERI-CLE back in the AM. Really pretty good for a standup. Scheduling called on my way into the airport. I was now operating CLE-ERI tonight, then repo ERI-CLE back right away because they were having to use a spare airplane that had an inspection due at midnight which made it unairworthy in the AM (call it a A check). Also, ERI was closing at 10:30PM for runway construction and we were blocking in at 10:05 so we had to turn and burn to get out before the airport clsoed. Once getting to CLE, we were supposed to repo back to ERI to fly the revenue flight out in the AM. Oh, by the way, that hotel that I was supposed to get in ERI doesn't transfer to CLE because I was based there and they wouldn't do in-base hotel rooms for crews. Even after a call to the CP.

    So we grudgingly fly CLE-ERI and on final at about 500 feet we smoked a bat on the right inboard flap. The Captain called it into MX and they said since we were doing a Part 91 Repo we didn't have to get it inspected. He quoted the GOM to the MX guy stating that anytime the airplane impacts anything it needs to be inspected. That cancelled the repo and they were going to drive a MX crew out to ERI to complete the bird strike inspection and the A check....or so we thought. We come out and all that's signed off is the bird strike. Call up MX and they say, nope the A-check isn't due for another 20 hours (or some ridiculous number). We were pretty furious about that.

    Another one (post 117)...

    I'm a new Captain, with maybe 80 hours in the left seat. Flying IAD-ROC at 10:15PM on a hot sticky July night. We pushback on time, taxi out and ground informs us that our route is closed due to a nice line of weather from ROC-HAR-CSN. Sit in the pad until 11:30 or so before we need to head back for gas. Thunderstorms are still going strong and tracking east at maybe 15 mph. Finally around 12:30 we launch for ROC. Had an FO with me that made me think I might get better use out of a paper weight in the right seat. Dodging thunderstorms, climbed a very heavy Dash 8-300 up to FL230 to get on top of some of the crap and be able to at least see the thunderstorms in the moonlight. Finally make it to ROC around 2am. Get to the hotel around 2:25 and filled out the sign in sheet for a 4:30 van. At some point during all of this, scheduling called me to inform me that they were reverting my schedule to table B (their favorite phrase I swear).

    In the same month as the last one or a month after I learned that you're only allowed to revert to table B and infringe on your WOCL 3 (or 4) times in a row in one stretch of split duties before you NEED 10 hours of rest in your WOCL. Flew IAD-ROC (this time as an FO when I was a CQF) to get there around 3:45am. It was so late we didn't bother going to the hotel and instead waited outside the airport McDonalds to open at 4:30am for some food then fly back to Dulles. Around 4:20 when the new scheduling shift started I got a phone call saying I had to go to the hotel for 10 hours of rest because I hadn't gotten the mandatory 4 hours behind the door that a split duty requires the last 3 nights.

    Another time flying IAD-CRW as an CQF (FO seat again)... we launch on time with an airplane that had been written up for torque surges. MX checked it out, signed it off and passed it to us. We took off, sure enough torque surging starts around 400 feet. Kept that engine running, join the downwind and return to the airport. Scheduling had an airplane waiting for us to take to CRW when we got on the ground. We took a few minutes to collect ourselves. That one didn't turn out all that bad with probably 4-4.5 behind the door.

    I have tons of these stories... Anything that can go wrong on a standup, will. I did have a few that went off without a hitch..but those were few and far between it seemed like. In Dulles dispatch particularly enjoyed dumping the broken airplanes on standup crews because they had all night for MX to fix them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  14. v1valarob

    v1valarob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    226
    This is exactly how it would go down at Colgan.
     
    amorris311 likes this.
  15. Soul Brotha'

    Soul Brotha' Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    505
    BlueJuice factory when I first started b4 117 had JFK-SJU/SDQ/STI/-JFK as redeye turns. Leave around midnight and back at 8am. The sun coming up on the return leg was murder. Redeye turns consist of MCO-BQN/PSE-MCO for me now. 2 in a row is the most I can do. For some reason west coast redeye flying does not bother me.
     
  16. ASpilot2be

    ASpilot2be SF340 CA

    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Messages:
    14,789
    Likes Received:
    3,334
    Where are you at these days?
     
  17. bimmerphile

    bimmerphile SuperCriticalâ„¢ Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    2,524

    the more things change here, the more they stay the same...
     
  18. CFIscare

    CFIscare Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    We had a couple of good ones at Eaglevoy, such as DFW-ACT (Waco, TX). It was a 1.5 hour...drive. The quickest flight time I had was I believe 10 minutes, followed by 8 hours in the hotel.
     
  19. Cory Trevor

    Cory Trevor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    117
    We had some ORD-YYZ stand ups before and that is just brutal.
     
  20. L-16B

    L-16B Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,647
    Likes Received:
    859
    His mother and I are very proud of him.

    I also remember doing standups then coming to the Romulus clarion room 141. Good times.
     
    amorris311 likes this.

Share This Page