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Some pointers from a friend that worked WAI

Discussion in 'Airline Pilots' started by Derg, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. Derg

    Derg Naval Intelligence, MCRN Staff Member

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    Have an "elevator pitch" ready. If it takes 15 minutes of telling your scripted life story that a recruitment firm coached you on, you're not doing it right. "Elevator" means about 3 minutes, max. Who you are, what you're after, make it "actionable" by either a followup question, something the recipient can do or embark on an action.

    You're going to be asked about "negatives". Most people have them but it's a chance for the person you're talking to to validate your answers and build a little "fast trust". You failed a checkride, big flipping deal, who hasn't, but it's not necessary to freak out and act like the world just ended because you have to explain how you busted your CFI when a vast majority do. It's always "Cool, what did you learn and how did you move forward". It's not an admission of a 'black mark', it's really more of a method to enable the applicant to tell his story.

    On that note, regardless of if it's your fault or not, own it, accept your role in it and talk about what you learned and how you moved forward.

    If there is a fast pass system, don't try to bribe the volunteer with money in exchange for access to an area you need a pass for.

    Desperation does not equal motivation, determination or ambition, it's desperation. Let someone finishing peeing (or pooping), let them wash their hands and wait for a less awkward opportunity.

    Please do your homework. Remember, your resume is nothing more than a brochure, your performance is your cover letter, but the "legalese" is in your application. "Why haven't you called me?" when a recruiter hasn't seen your application is going to be met with a less than satisfying answer.

    You can be Buzz Aldrin in real life, but if your application (always taking the most literal interpretation of the question being asked) makes you read like you're a drunken sailor sending a late night text on shore leave, you're going to have less than optimal satisfaction with your experience.

    And, after all, please don't lie. My friend got really good at reading non-verbal communication because of the sheer amount of people he speaks to on an average day and he's got to decide whether (a) you're not being genuine with your answer (b) not reading you correctly or hopefully (c) needs to spend more time with you to develop a 'fast trust' with you so you give him the information he's looking for. We all want to put our best foot forward, but sometimes straight up honesty followed immediately by owning up and the corrective action taken afterward is the best policy.

    For example:

    Q: "Have you failed any checkrides"

    A: "Well, one day I was taking my ATP checkride and the weather was really squirrely, blah blah blah"

    versus

    A: "Yes. I have. My ATP checkride"

    Followup Q: "Tell me about it" (The question isn't supposed to serve as a "tell me how you screwed up" it's really more of a 'Yay, I get an opportunity to let an applicant tell me his story' AKA 'shake the snowglobe)

    A: A SHORT synopsis, my corrective response, my lesson.

    It may not specifically be your fault, but always own up to it, accept your role/responsibility and you've always learned something that has helped you with your present level of success.

    More later. Mild ADD and all, :)
     
  2. JustinS

    JustinS Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the advice, Doug. Love the "shake the snow globe" analogy.
     
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  3. phill1174

    phill1174 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the tips @Derg . I'm getting close to my 1000 121 and will be finishing my 4 year degree this month. I know it'll be a while before anyone calls but I want to start early. It all seems so simple, I wonder why do guys make going to job fairs and telling their story so complicated.
     
  4. cmhumphr

    cmhumphr Well-Known Member

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    One other thing I learned about interviewing at the majors is everyone has their OWN story and journey to tell. Flight hours don't matter as much as people think and comparing yourself to others saying "well he/she got a call with similar experience but I didn't" doesn't do anything but discourage and frustrate you. Dare to be different, and tell YOUR story to the recruiters.

    If I listened to people I flew with and my peers, I would never have enough flight time to be "competitive" and would always just doubt myself about applying to the majors.
     
  5. Jack-A-Roe

    Jack-A-Roe Well-Known Member

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    Why does "your friend" tell people at WAI that this encounter doesn't really do much for your chances; It's all about the AirlinesApp and how well you score once it's reviewed.

    Just curious.
     
  6. Derg

    Derg Naval Intelligence, MCRN Staff Member

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    Because that wouldn't be factually correct.

    If you're a strong candidate, it absolutely helps. If you're just a time grid and the most ambitious things you have on your resume are "WAI/OBAP/NGPA member", you're not going to have a good time.

    A lot of people show up who aren't strong candidates with the impression that "Well, Kit Darby says there's a shortage, I 'won' a fast pass, Well, here I am".
     
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  7. Jack-A-Roe

    Jack-A-Roe Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I see
     
  8. Dugie8

    Dugie8 Well-Known Member

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    What is the definition of "Strong" candidate?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. Roger Roger

    Roger Roger Navajo Whisperer

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    Do you even lift bro?!?
     
  10. Dugie8

    Dugie8 Well-Known Member

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    Only on odd days....even then I do curls in the squat rack.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  11. Jack-A-Roe

    Jack-A-Roe Well-Known Member

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    Be a chief pilot, check airman, safety manager, form a non-profit, cure polio.

    Pretty basic stuff. Do that and you'll have a good time.
     
  12. Dugie8

    Dugie8 Well-Known Member

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    That's it? Easy peasy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. Derg

    Derg Naval Intelligence, MCRN Staff Member

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    It depends. Is the candidate a high achiever or just some dude with a fat logbook and a sense of entitlement?

    My friend talks to a lot of people that have great experience but low interpersonal skills and basically can't look you in the eye when he's talking to you but keeps on staring at another female recruiters booty. #truestorybro
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  14. B767

    B767 Well-Known Member

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    Why you even lifting in the text/selfie rack bro??
     
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  15. bimmerphile

    bimmerphile Open-Air Member

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    "Yeah, I applied the big 3

    squat, deadlift, bench press"
     
  16. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

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    *slowly raises hand*



    *DUCKS*





    To be fair though, I only had 3 checkrides before the airlines.
     
  17. bimmerphile

    bimmerphile Open-Air Member

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    wow, glossed over this before...

    this is a great way to show off your professional integrity.
     
  18. BigZ

    BigZ Well-Known Member

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    Here's a question on volunteering that I just randomly came up with. Not that I'm anywhere near where I'd need to be to apply to a major.
    Say there's a certain country in Eastern Europe with a civil war going on. US supports the govmint of the said country and the other side is the Russian backed separatists. Then say you have a friend and ex-business partner who drives a truckload of clothes and meds and what have you (no weapons, naturally, just humanitarian stuff) to the breakaway region every month or two and you do your best to help that cause, even though on the government held side of the country that can be very easily qualified as "supporting the terrorism".
    Question is - do you bring that up or shut up and go walk shelter puppies?
     
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  19. Dphoenix

    Dphoenix Love lasagna, hate mondays

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    Uh... .......... you're gonna probably want to either rework that explanation, or stick to walking shelter puppies.
    Try something more like this:
    "I see <whatever> on your resume, what is that?"
    "That's a humanitarian organization that provides clothes and medicine to the needy. I'm really passionate about it because <words words words>."
    "oh, that's great! so have you failed any checkrides..."

    Assuming that's what they do. If it's REALLY that controversial what they're doing, perhaps best to stick to walking shelter puppies.
    But I haven't been hired yet, so YMMV ;)
     
  20. Dphoenix

    Dphoenix Love lasagna, hate mondays

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    It has a lot to do with the personality type of pilots... socially unaware...type A... we find patterns in EVERYTHING etc. That said, I thought it was all so simple til I went to my first job fair and my head exploded a little bit. But having finally hit the mins and throwing my apps in, after you go to a job fair you realize... hey, now I'm just waiting for the phone to ring (obviously not true, there are things you can do, but...) So all the wheels start turning in your brain... you tweak your app. And then you tweak your app again and again and again and again, trying to take the most literal answer to every question, and before you know it you're spending 4 hours trying to decide if a box should be N/A or blank like that's going to be the difference between you getting hired for your dream job at Delta or being a lifer captain at some regional. And now some guy with what you think is a similar resume or application (although all you actually know is his hours and maybe his GPA, but you actually only know 10% of his background) gets a phone call and your head starts spinning again, "what am I doing wrong!?! Well he checked that box as N/A, I better go fix my app and put N/A there!" ... what I'm saying is, it's really easy to drive yourself crazy, especially if you're that personality type. I've watched it in a lot of captains and I saw it at my first job fair. Because pilots want to be in control, and some part of this process is unknown and out of our control. Part of the reason the process is unknown is because if you give pilots any little scrap, they'll blow it out of proportion, and I watched this happen live...
    Having said that, I had an amazing time at NGPA. Got to get a bit of face time with folks that can affect my career, had some drinks with great friends who I haven't seen for years, and if I get a phone call from it, great, if not, I'll do it again in a year!
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
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