So awfully confused.....

scan340

New Member
I currently goto ERAU at Daytona Beach. Im a transfer student working on my private right now and doing extremely well in all my classes. After being at this school for over a month, im seriously beginning to question if its worth it. I want to be an airline pilot but as a back up I really dont see an Aeronautical Science degree taking me far. Most of the people here almost make it out to seem that if I walk into an interview with a degree that says Riddle on it, im practically a shoe in. Im doubting this. For the money we pay here at Riddle is this school really worth it? If I went to UCLA and majored in Liberal Arts would any airline view me differntly then if I graduated from Riddle? I think I would get a greatly higher level of education at UCLA as opposed to Riddle (im just using UCLA as an example because im thinking about transfering there).

Im sorry i know that paragraph is pretty jumbled, i think its an accurate way of showing just how confused I am. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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Most of the people here almost make it out to seem that if I walk into an interview with a degree that says Riddle on it, im practically a shoe in. Im doubting this.

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And that's the biggest problem with Riddle that I have, next to the damn cost. All those $$$, and the Riddle name on your degree is no better than a comparable degree from another college. The classes and classroom instructors are good, don't get me wrong, but the name that you're also paying for isn't all it's dished up to be.
 

Phoenix_Son

New Member
Are you eligible for hire with fewer hours if your bachelor's is in Aero Sci? I think I remember seeing a regional's hiring requirements posted somewhere on here, and they required oh, 1500-ish hours, but only 1200 if you have a bachelor's, and then 1000 if you have an bachelor's in aviation. (Approximate numbers)
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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Are you eligible for hire with fewer hours if your bachelor's is in Aero Sci? I think I remember seeing a regional's hiring requirements posted somewhere on here, and they required oh, 1500-ish hours, but only 1200 if you have a bachelor's, and then 1000 if you have an bachelor's in aviation. (Approximate numbers)

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Haven't heard of that, but I've been out of monitoring airline hiring for 7 years now.

Though, IMO, mins are mins, and a degree on paper shouldn't make a difference.
 

PFactor

New Member
Actually its the other way around..you need more hours if you have a degree in aviation...lol, just kidding
 

RiddlePilot

New Member
AirNet has something like that I'm pretty sure. Lower minimums if you have an aviation degree. Is it me or did ACA do that too?
 

ERAU_Intern

New Member
Riddle Pilot has a point! There are some carriers that will allow you an interview with less than the normally required minnimums. HOWEVER. This is NOT just because you went to Riddle. Its just that some airlines, or carriers prefer certain schools over others. (Mostly because they usually have someone in upper management who attended the preferred school.) Anyhow, so long as you realize that a degree from Riddle wont make you GOD, you are better off than the majority of alumni.
 

Tazman282

New Member
Well here is my take on the situation. I am currently a senior and hopefully graduating in the spring depending on the CRJ . When I chose ERAU it was for an education in aviation. If you choose to go to UCLA then you won't be learning about the thing you love. I believe that with an education from Riddle you are showing airlines that you not only love flying but that is the only thing you want to do and there is nothing that will get in your way in order to achieve your goal. I couldn't ask for easier classes based on the knowledge that you want to learn it. So you will maintain a higher overall GPA and also retain all the knowledge that you will be required later in your airline career. So now here rises another thing, you and I are both hired on american airlines and we are in ground school. What is your political science or whatever else going to do for you. You will end up studying more on all the things that I already know. If you want a backup maybe you should just stick with that. I also think that a degree from ERAU will put you on the top of a stack of application but you are also going to be competing against other grads that are in your same position and also those that have the experience that no education can supply. Who would you want to work for your company, a person that has spent four years on aviation material or someone that has spent 4 years learning about anything other than that. I believe that the one bad aspect of riddle as that many employers look at us as cocky pilots that think they owe it to us because we did graduate from riddle. That we think we know it all. So that will be the determining factor when you sit in an interview, your attitude. Once you get the interview it doesn't matter what school you graduated from, its you attitude that will get the job. All that riddle degree gets is a second look. But I believe that you will do what is in your best interest but if you are looking for a backup you could also get an ATC minor, dispatch, safety or even buisness if you want. I know that riddle has a lot of BS but it is also a good education that I think you will appreciate when you are sitting in a 777. The possibilities are endless but it is up to you to reach them. Good luck.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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Well here is my take on the situation. I am currently a senior and hopefully graduating in the spring depending on the CRJ . When I chose ERAU it was for an education in aviation. If you choose to go to UCLA then you won't be learning about the thing you love. I believe that with an education from Riddle you are showing airlines that you not only love flying but that is the only thing you want to do and there is nothing that will get in your way in order to achieve your goal. I couldn't ask for easier classes based on the knowledge that you want to learn it. So you will maintain a higher overall GPA and also retain all the knowledge that you will be required later in your airline career. So now here rises another thing, you and I are both hired on american airlines and we are in ground school. What is your political science or whatever else going to do for you. You will end up studying more on all the things that I already know. If you want a backup maybe you should just stick with that. I also think that a degree from ERAU will put you on the top of a stack of application but you are also going to be competing against other grads that are in your same position and also those that have the experience that no education can supply. Who would you want to work for your company, a person that has spent four years on aviation material or someone that has spent 4 years learning about anything other than that. I believe that the one bad aspect of riddle as that many employers look at us as cocky pilots that think they owe it to us because we did graduate from riddle. That we think we know it all. So that will be the determining factor when you sit in an interview, your attitude. Once you get the interview it doesn't matter what school you graduated from, its you attitude that will get the job. All that riddle degree gets is a second look. But I believe that you will do what is in your best interest but if you are looking for a backup you could also get an ATC minor, dispatch, safety or even buisness if you want. I know that riddle has a lot of BS but it is also a good education that I think you will appreciate when you are sitting in a 777. The possibilities are endless but it is up to you to reach them. Good luck.

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Highly disagree, Tazman. Sounds like you've been listening to the Riddle snake oil salesmen a little too much.

Riddle would LOVE you to believe that having a degree somehow puts you "ahead of the game". Fact is, going to UND, Purdue, etc, et al, is just the same as spending the $$$ required for Riddle.

You REALLY think that CRJ stuff is going to help with your career? All the CRJ training isn't going to mean squat, since by the time you actually do make to the airlines, you'll have forgotten the CRJ stuff anyway, and the airline is going to teach you their way of doing business. Don't need any CRJ training to learn CRM, or teach in 172s. Also, when it comes to the guy with the Poli Sci degree with you at American Airlines, in your example, you're both going to have the same flight experience, more or less, so it really doesn't matter what your degree is in. And if you don' think you need a backup degree in this day and age, you're really fooling yourself.

Agree with one aspect of your post, and that is attitude has a lot to do with success. Glad that's realized. Most Riddle pilots I've seen/worked with do have somewhat of a chip on their shoulder. Riddle's ground training taught by the experienced people that have "been there" is top notch. The flight training is just your typical 250 hr CFI Riddle grad that is following the flight training script and not passing on any real "experience", since he/she has none at that point.

I sure hope Riddle isn't spewing their "did you know that a 747 international Captain for United can make up to 300K/year?" first-day introduction • still. That rhetoric is far outdated.
 

ERAU_Intern

New Member
Phew! Tazman, you are in for a wake-up call. Just WAIT until you try and find a job. I can tell you from personal experience that the job market/real world is gonna scare the HECK out of you these days. The Riddle degree is just another aviation degree and you and I are just two more bodies in a POOL of pilots looking for jobs.
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
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You REALLY think that CRJ stuff is going to help with your career? All the CRJ training isn't going to mean squat, since by the time you actually do make to the airlines, you'll have forgotten the CRJ stuff anyway, and the airline is going to teach you their way of doing business. Don't need any CRJ training to learn CRM, or teach in 172s. Also, when it comes to the guy with the Poli Sci degree with you at American Airlines, in your example, you're both going to have the same flight experience, more or less, so it really doesn't matter what your degree is in. And if you don' think you need a backup degree in this day and age, you're really fooling yourself.

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Besides, you can get the CRJ (or JetSim) stuff by itself at a lot of places. There is another school in Daytona (actually, I think it's Ormand Beach but same difference) that has a JetSim course. MAPD has a CRJ systems class and 40 hours of JetSim. Riddle is not as unique as they try to make themselves sound. Right now I'm taking classes from Riddle on-line and it will save me about $20K since I don't have to do my flight training there. I would do university of phoenix or something like that, but Riddle already had all of my transcripts, CLEP tests, etc, so it was easier that way. Besides I need an AS by next year, and their on-line courses give me that opportunity.
 

Tazman282

New Member
In regards to the whole riddle name giving you a little help it is so very true. I personally know two sim trainers one works for US airways and another for Continental. Both said that when it comes down to who they will higher based on level experience, they are going to choose someone from Riddle over those of UND or Auburn for one main reason. Most of them graduated for Riddle so they are going to keep that in there mind during the application process. I mean it is like watching college football, what team do you root for, usually the one you graduated from, you are not going to root for another school unless there is a reason. I understand that there are going to be many people out there with much more expierence and whatever else. I am saying a level playing field and everyone has the same thing. The riddle guy will get the interview first unless they have had a bad experience or just don't like the school. And if you would really like to know I do have a job lined up already flying a King Air which will start in July of 04. I guess it really comes down to who you know. And then on to the other thing with where you graduate from. Depending on the type of student you are and the information that you retain you will be much more prepared when you are sitting in your ground school over someone that has a political science degree. I mean that is like saying that someone that has studied math for the past 4 yrs is going to be no better than an english major. Come on use common sense here. And I personally have a back up with ATC but I don't feel I will ever need to use that. Now on to the whole CRJ statements. I don't think that it will help me with getting a job but it does give you experience in the cockpit with CRM and also utilizing all available resources. These things cannot be experienced in a 172 or even a seminole. I mean some of the statements are only common sense to whether it would help you or not. It is like the first time you sit in a multi. You are somewhat lost, but after the first few flights you are well on your way to understanding. Well that is what the CRJ is all about to give you the heads up, so you won't waste time doing it later. that is also the reason it is not a type rating it is only training, to be cost effective. I mean why would Comair have there jet transition course just for fun. It is to get ahead, point blank. Even if you fly a B1900 you will understand the concepts of most components because you have used them before, rather then sitting in there like a 10 year old in the cockpit staring and saying what does that do. Books and flight sim can only go so far, it is like skydiving you can't explain it to someone else until they have done it themselves. Oh and just one other thing there buddy I know you made the comment about the 300,000 a yr I am not sure if they still use that line but I do personally know a pilot that retires in two years making 230,000 a year and has about 3 mil in 401K it was at like 8 but after september 11th that is the first thing that took a hit. But I think I would be a happy man if I made 150,000 by the time I am 40. Money is just icing on the cake to me. All I want to do is fly. I would go in the military if I had better eye sight and that is for sure not for the money. I guess it all comes down to the individual. And the oppurtunities that you make for yourself. There are those that sit back and wonder what will happen next and those that go out and get what they want. I believe that in the end we will all win as long as we don't give up along the way.
 

Tazman282

New Member
Oh and just one more thing to add to this discussion. In no way am I trying to defend ERAU, there are many things I dislike and many things I would have done different. This is just my opinion as everyone out there has. If I had to do it all over again I would have gotten my ratings up to Instrument elsewhere, then transferred them in. And the flight training is really not that expensive for the type of training that is recieved and the condition of equipment. What makes it expensive is the location and airspace. I sat down and calculated the money that I would have saved if ERAU was located at Flagler airport based on time to taxi and time to get back and forth to practice area came out to about 4 thousand dollars wasted on transition time. Just a little info.
 

MDPilot

Well-Known Member
Obviously ERAU never taught how to write in paragraphs. Must have been during my MS in Aero Sci that I learned that.


BTW, in my new hire class at DAL in Jan 2000, we had zero ERAU grads (undergraduate) out of 25. I guess that edge was dulled at that point in time, huh?
 

MDPilot

Well-Known Member
Hey, I've got nothing against Embry-Ridiculous, after all that's where I got my MS (distance learning). They have, from what I have seen, a fine quality educational program and an above average flight program. But anyone who thinks that the ERAU stamp on your forehead gives you ANY kind of an edge in a hiring process is just trying to justify to themselves how much money they (over)spent to get to where they are. Doug, MikeD, you guys went to ERAU for undergrad, am I wrong??
 

Tazman282

New Member
I like the comments on the writing skills, and I will also agree with them. However what seems to be funny to me is that in the year 2000 I only started school in Aug so I can't say much about Jan. I went through six instructors in a two month time frame due to the airlines and commuters picking up all of our instructors with 350 50 so I guess they just went off to be mechanics or something. I remember a time when ERAU was actually paying more than the commuters in order to get instructors to stay. It was short lived but it was there because we had lost so many. Things are different now and I guess we will see where we all end up in the end.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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I like the comments on the writing skills, and I will also agree with them. However what seems to be funny to me is that in the year 2000 I only started school in Aug so I can't say much about Jan. I went through six instructors in a two month time frame due to the airlines and commuters picking up all of our instructors with 350 50 so I guess they just went off to be mechanics or something. I remember a time when ERAU was actually paying more than the commuters in order to get instructors to stay. It was short lived but it was there because we had lost so many. Things are different now and I guess we will see where we all end up in the end.

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Partner, you've got another thing coming if you truly believe the Riddle BS you're spewing about them getting interviews ahead of everyone else. The "who you know" part may ring true in the networking instance, but being from Riddle alone isn't going to cut it.

I know. I went through the program at PRC back when you were probably still gnawing on a popsicle in front of the TV. You're talking pretty assured for someone that hasn't even been out in the industry yet. All you have to go by is a couple of opinions from a couple of other Riddle grads, and what BS Riddle has fed you.

Sorry, but the 300K/yr airline pilots are long gone.....went away when the A-scale (old A-scale prior to your time) went away. Got a King Air job lined up? Hope it works out.

But remember this, if you're not going to be humble in any other way:

Everyone pays their dues to get to the top. Pay now, or pay later. Those that don't.....PFT and such.....bad karma........
 

ClipperPilot

New Member
I was just curious to know if you guys look back and see ERAU as a good experience aviation wise, and a good college experience? Regardless of how you feel about the costs.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Oh yeah, I went to Riddle out in PRC.

It's a good school with a good flight program, but I don't necessarily think it gave me a big edge. The one thing that I'm highly upset with ERAU about is how high tuition and flight costs are now.

When I started at ERAU, it was $1,800/semester, a 172 costed $50 and a PA44 was $120.

Good program, good people, but watching the tuition and fees skyrocket over the years really rubbed me the wrong way. I would have also preferred a more challenging core education program (I don't know if it's changed much since graduating in 1993). I dunno, I prepped myself in order to qualify for a UC (Univ of California) campus and loved mathematics, but found the math courses to be at a Freshman year of HS level. Most of the students liked it because they were there to fly, but I wanted more of a well-rounded education.

I think it can be a fantastic program if they bring the costs into check, laregely broaden the non-flying curriculum and focus on producing a well-rounded, college-educated graduate with a bachelor of science, with emphasis in flight, rather than a good pilot that also has a four year degree in whatever.

Looking back, I think I'd prefer they reinvent the curriculum from having 'aeronautical science' into a curriculum where you choose a BS in engineering, computer science, business administration, etc and then add the 'flight option' as an elective.

So when you graduate, you have a useable degree, plus embry-riddle flight instruction.

I dunno, random thoughts. How are those paragraphs?
 
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