Skywest Soft Landings approved

ppragman

Direct Yeska
#61
I get what he's saying. And I get what you're saying. Having been here, and seen, what happened and how we reacted when they reduced the number of water bottles, recommended bringing your own and filling it up on turns, and "not allowing" crew to use the liter bottles...

Yea, more than a mutiny is about the right phrase. Things got crazy over bottles of water. Would hate to see what happens if they took away medical.
The level of mutiny will be directly related to the market for pilots. If pilots are a dime a dozen and nobody can afford to up and quit, well, without a union they'll cut costs wherever they can.
 

Autothrust Blue

Hat removed, WIE UFN
#62
I get what he's saying. And I get what you're saying. Having been here, and seen, what happened and how we reacted when they reduced the number of water bottles, recommended bringing your own and filling it up on turns, and "not allowing" crew to use the liter bottles...

Yea, more than a mutiny is about the right phrase. Things got crazy over bottles of water. Would hate to see what happens if they took away medical.
I wish our pilots would be as uniformly cranky on reroute/reflow as they were on the water bottle thing. Good lord.
 

Autothrust Blue

Hat removed, WIE UFN
#63
The level of mutiny will be directly related to the market for pilots. If pilots are a dime a dozen and nobody can afford to up and quit, well, without a union they'll cut costs wherever they can.
I'd prefer to think that the current environment will be forever, but that's convenient thinking.

Which is why it's time to put in real, material gains.

(AND I VOTED NO)
 

B767

Well-Known Member
#66
The level of mutiny will be directly related to the market for pilots. If pilots are a dime a dozen and nobody can afford to up and quit, well, without a union they'll cut costs wherever they can.
I was saying it in a more sadistic "that would be fun to watch" type of way (not that I WANT them to pull medical and I'd be happy watching the fallout - I would surely be unhappy).

I saw the uprising, from the inside, over not allowing crews to use bottled water from the plane. 36 hours later the decision was rescinded. I'm guessing if it were medical, it would be 36 minutes before being rescinded.

I know what you're saying though. Don't have to preach to me about a union. I am by no way implying we are fine without one.

If people think we are then they don't stay up to date on things at the company (or are too senior to care because the awefulness doesn't effect them). We had an update from the student council a few weeks ago that stated the company has "changed their interpretation of a day off." There's more on that but no need for the filler.

Anywho, they openly admitted, I quote verbatim "Typically, labor groups would sue, petition the NMB, or even strike. [student council] does not have those resources."

Pretty clear that they can't do anything, in case people thought they were as good as a union. I love that the update ended with

"Today is [date], and as of today nobody's time off is their own."
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
#67
I was saying it in a more sadistic "that would be fun to watch" type of way (not that I WANT them to pull medical and I'd be happy watching the fallout - I would surely be unhappy).

I saw the uprising, from the inside, over not allowing crews to use bottled water from the plane. 36 hours later the decision was rescinded. I'm guessing if it were medical, it would be 36 minutes before being rescinded.

I know what you're saying though. Don't have to preach to me about a union. I am by no way implying we are fine without one.

If people think we are then they don't stay up to date on things at the company (or are too senior to care because the awefulness doesn't effect them). We had an update from the student council a few weeks ago that stated the company has "changed their interpretation of a day off." There's more on that but no need for the filler.

Anywho, they openly admitted, I quote verbatim "Typically, labor groups would sue, petition the NMB, or even strike. [student council] does not have those resources."

Pretty clear that they can't do anything, in case people thought they were as good as a union. I love that the update ended with

"Today is [date], and as of today nobody's time off is their own."
This is what surprises me, union shop or not. They take something very small away - the water bottle example is great, and the pilot group kidnaps the CEOs daughter and holds her for ransom, giving her a permanent scar for a reminder before it's all done.
The company makes a major change that massively effects everyone's QOL or pay and it's nothing more than a little bitching with no action whatsoever.
 
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#68
It's gonna be that way and it usually doesn't get better. Why Skywest hasn't unionized yet is puzzling. 1.9% is a lot but it's also not when you consider the benefits you can get if you're called in for a carpet dance with HR and the CPs. The orange card. 24/7 phone numbers for help. And of course merger policy/SLI proceeding protection.
 

ppragman

Direct Yeska
#69
I'd prefer to think that the current environment will be forever, but that's convenient thinking.

Which is why it's time to put in real, material gains.

(AND I VOTED NO)
I promise you it will not be - it's really easy to sing gloom and doom (because eventually, law of large numbers, you'll be right) - but I don't know if you were in the industry back when all the hiring just evaporated in 2007/2008 (ish), it'll happen again. Either through automation, legislation, or because of the economy, the music will stop again, not permanently, but a lot of the people I know basically lost a decade of their flying career to the economy and age 65. I had a good time, and I'm not complaining in the least - but I suspect that they'll go back to pinching pennies as soon as they can get away with it again. Every company does this - it's nothing personal, it's just what they do.

Singularity people worry about the "paperclip optimizer" AI that converts observable universe into paperclips. This is humorous, but fails to realize that we already have a bunch of versions of this that've been running for centuries - companies. It's not that they're immoral - rather, they're a-moral.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
#70
Yea, more than a mutiny is about the right phrase. Things got crazy over bottles of water. Would hate to see what happens if they took away medical.
Thanks to (current) Federal law they can't "take away" the medical coverage. What they can do though is start moving up the costs, shuffling around and reducing the coverage until it is all but useless. Remember, pilots, even at regionals, make a considerable bit more than all the other work groups. ACA protections are geared towards low income earners. The biggest premium protection is that your percentage of the premium cost can't exceed a percentage of your income. But 5% for a guy making 25K a year is very different than 5% for a guy making 65K a year.
 

ppragman

Direct Yeska
#71
This is what surprises me, union shop or not. They take something very small away - the water bottle example is great, and the pilot group kidnaps the CEOs daughter and holds her for ransom, giving her a permanent scar for a reminder before it's all done.
The company makes a major change than massively effects everyone's QOL or pay and it's nothing more than a little bitching with no action whatsoever.
I can see the movie already:



"Tell your father what happened here. TELL HIM! If he ever so much as considers a method of hydration for the pilot group other than Fiji water, we will find you again."
 

B767

Well-Known Member
#72
This is what surprises me, union shop or not. They take something very small away - the water bottle example is great, and the pilot group kidnaps the CEOs daughter and holds her for ransom, giving her a permanent scar for a reminder before it's all done.
The company makes a major change that massively effects everyone's QOL or pay and it's nothing more than a little bitching with no action whatsoever.
Hell, I bet if it came down to "we are going to file chapter 7 unless we cut pay $15 from all scales, or you can no longer drink the bottled water."

The vote would pass overwhelmingly in favor of cutting pay instead of taking the cherished water away.
 

Rodger Wilco

Well-Known Member
#73
I was saying it in a more sadistic "that would be fun to watch" type of way (not that I WANT them to pull medical and I'd be happy watching the fallout - I would surely be unhappy).

I saw the uprising, from the inside, over not allowing crews to use bottled water from the plane. 36 hours later the decision was rescinded. I'm guessing if it were medical, it would be 36 minutes before being rescinded.

I know what you're saying though. Don't have to preach to me about a union. I am by no way implying we are fine without one.

If people think we are then they don't stay up to date on things at the company (or are too senior to care because the awefulness doesn't effect them). We had an update from the student council a few weeks ago that stated the company has "changed their interpretation of a day off." There's more on that but no need for the filler.

Anywho, they openly admitted, I quote verbatim "Typically, labor groups would sue, petition the NMB, or even strike. [student council] does not have those resources."

Pretty clear that they can't do anything, in case people thought they were as good as a union. I love that the update ended with

"Today is [date], and as of today nobody's time off is their own."
I don't remember this update at all, Please PM me as I am very curious
 

Rodger Wilco

Well-Known Member
#74
How can a union possibly represent regional carriers and their major partners without blatant bias and conflict of interest?

"Follow the money" as the saying goes. Why not a regional airline only union?

What is in the best interest of Legacy isn't always in the best interest all.
 

Cazadores

Well-Known Member
#79
Think the whipsaw game is bad now? Regional CEOs would be beyond giddy pitting two competing unions against each other.

This industry needs more unity, not less of it. Personally always felt awkward using ALPA negotiated benefits as an OO pilot, glad to be making up for that now.
I would sign the card. Today.


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