1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Skywest Soft Landings approved

Discussion in 'Airline Pilots' started by Rodger Wilco, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. RA390

    RA390 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2013
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    206
    My gripe with this program is that SAPA and the company (same thing, I know) sold the lowball pay package as a requirement to stay competative and preached that there was no more money available to offer the pilots. Well, just a few short months later they decide that they've found more money to pay pilots a premium that aren't even on property yet as a recruitment tool. It's a bandaid to their stafffing issue and further reduces any pilot shortage leverage that the pilot group may have currently or in the future (keeping in mind the pay package was a 5 year deal). If the pilot group would have gotten the pay rates and annual percentage increases they deserve in the latest 5 year deal, I think Soft Landings would be a different animal. At the end of the day, the SAPA and Managment team will do whatever they please and the pilot group will continue to feel like it is their responsiblity to keep the airline properly staffed.
     
  2. Cazadores

    Cazadores Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2006
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    721
    You clearly need to educate yourself on what ALPA does, what protections dues include, the enforceability of a labor contract negotiated through a CBA, and the use/abuse of the RLA.

    You're absolutely correct soft landings has little to do with representation and it may be a positive thing as a whole, however a lot of pilots might be asking exactly how this benefits a line pilot, now, which is a primary responsibility of a representative in negotiations. Fact is everything offered of late benefits management above the line pilot, and is power sold to us by our representatives barely able to prevent pilots from being forced to work days off. It's no coincidence every correspondence from SAPA and management includes the tacit threatening language "We're having no trouble filling classes...." Our representatives telling us they are hamstrung to negotiate simple QOL improvements as we are not as hot a commodity as we think, while out of the other side of their mouth admit staffing is resulting in pilots being forced into flying on days off.

    I like Skywest, and am very happy here so far, but frankly if our major partners were to absorb us tomorrow and the company ceased to exist it would be better for every one of our employees. I find no reason I should subsidize this company for it to remain competitive im bidding contracts to furrher the addiction mainline management has on cheap regional labor, and find any argument to do so sadly myopic. I generrally have found the people who are most pro company and anti union are experiencing their first and only airline industry exposure. There are real benefits to ALPA, and some real drawbacks. I'm not sure it is the answer to the relatively minor issues we have here and is likely a bad fit for Skywest, but dismissing representation based on some very shallow analysis or predisposition against organized labor is doing yourself a disservice. Get the whole story,

    Remember under the RLA our mentors over decades of what is likely the most turbulent history in any industry managed to make this a profession worth tremendous sacrifice to pursue. The RLA believe it or not cuts both ways, and I'm confident Spirit pilots will get most if not all they ask for, without a strike.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  3. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2001
    Messages:
    8,749
    Likes Received:
    3,848
    Of course you'll have soft landings at Skywest. It's a trailing-link gear.
     
  4. word302

    word302 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    176
    You should read republic's contract. Also, why do you think all the competition is handing out raises and huge bonuses? Hint: it's to get people in the door.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
    bimmerphile and Yakob like this.
  5. bike21

    bike21 Somewhat Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Likes Received:
    2,017
    Always has been and always will be synonymous. Despite a handful of us who have tried otherwise.
     
  6. Screaming_Emu

    Screaming_Emu You people

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,908
    Likes Received:
    17,105
    You obviously haven't worked at a union shop.

    You are the career version of "I'm young and healthy. I don't need health insurance!"
     
    podrick, Soku39, JetDoc and 10 others like this.
  7. ppragman

    ppragman Direct BOOKE

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2007
    Messages:
    9,736
    Likes Received:
    3,667
    This is exactly it. There's an accountant that exists at these companies - when the price of cancelling trips due to lack of staffing exceeds the cost of increasing pay, the company will start to pay more. It's that simple.

    I am currently involved directly in some of these sorts of machinations - generally speaking, the human element is more or less removed from the decision making. That's where a Union that represents the best interests of the pilots is important. Without it, generally, these decisions will be strictly business decisions. Nothing more. Skywest is reportedly a good place to work - right now. It will not ALWAYS be that way, and it wasn't always that way - just a few years ago the pay was abysmal. The fact that SKYW doesn't have a union has allowed them to be slightly more nimble with regard to pilot pay right now, but this doesn't actually help anyone other than the shareholders and mainline.

    In the long run, this is a tool that will draw pilots away from union carriers. In the long run, this will be detrimental to the industry unless the Union shops try to add this to the contracts the pilots operate under. Regardless, this doesn't make your pay and benefits transferable, it means that you can go to ONE and only one NON-UNION, company. You could basically do that now and go to the 135 world.

    I dunno - this sort of thing outside of the bounds of contract is simply market forces with no regard for human quality of life. This could be fantastic, but I suspect it will not benefit people as much as they think.
     
  8. Screaming_Emu

    Screaming_Emu You people

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,908
    Likes Received:
    17,105
    Two things.

    One, I completely agree with you about the whole managing an airline via spreadsheet. Unfortunately what those kinds of decisions don't take into account is common sense and goodwill amongst your employees. I see this at my current airline and I saw it at my last one. A great example was when "ASA" bought Expressjet. One of the first things that happened was they saw that XJT had a pretty good stock of spare parts. Hey, those are worth money, so they sold them off. Reliability went into the toilet. One of two things happened...it was done on purpose or it was some idiot looking at a spreadsheet that went "hey, I have an idea!" Neither one of those is good.

    Two, this definitely is a ploy to get people over to the one and only non union carrier. Hopefully, the end result is organization at Skywest due to the influx of other people. Really, the only people who benefit from this move are the people at Expressjet. Almost every other regional has similar pay, benefits, movement, etc.

    For those who are drinking the koolaid. If you think you're really that much better off being non-union, why do you think your management is fighting so damn hard to keep one off property? You guys deal with the absolute same crap as everyone else, but for some reason you're the only group that seems to like it. Seems kind of like an abusive relationship.
     
  9. Autothrust Blue

    Autothrust Blue "How can you be so obtuse?"

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    17,496
    Likes Received:
    10,452
    A lack of grown-up reroute language is problematic for everyone.

    I didn't care about health insurance until I needed it. (And so on)
     
  10. TrustMeI'maPilot

    TrustMeI'maPilot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    271
    If you're only talking about the soft landing program then yes, for anyone else many other regionals are a much better deal. Also, at my shop the grievances I've been involved with or seen have resulted in almost immediate fixes and apologies by management. Not sure why you think they just go in the trash?
     
  11. Rodger Wilco

    Rodger Wilco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2012
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    43
    Oh but I do need insurance!
    Health Insurance or Medical Insurance? Skywest Offers both, the Health is ok the Medical is a joke.

    You are ALPA? Let me ask you, (and this isn't me being snarky, this is a sincere question); What makes you think that you have better insurance?

    Let me be clear to everyone, I'm not anti-union. But I am not pro union either. Show me a union with bite and not just bark. Heck I would be the first one to sign up for One List!
     
  12. Nark

    Nark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    4,007
    Likes Received:
    3,216
    The problem with unions, is that they are internally staffed.
    They're only as good as the people in those positions.
    So ALPA at PSA isn't the same ALPA at say... Eaglevoy.
    (I think they're both ALPA).

    Point still stands.
     
    Rodger Wilco likes this.
  13. Autothrust Blue

    Autothrust Blue "How can you be so obtuse?"

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    17,496
    Likes Received:
    10,452
    Hmm. Would RJ still be in charge if we had ALPA?
     
    Cazadores likes this.
  14. z987k

    z987k TeamANC

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2010
    Messages:
    11,474
    Likes Received:
    7,172
    At my shop, scheduling tries to get you to do something non compliant, you can call/e-mail the scheduling committee and it's usually taken care of within the hour.
    In fact every issue I've seen so far, they are on it as fast as seems possible and it's fixed. There is no such thing as fly it and grieve it later. It's set the brake and make them fix it.

    As far as grievances going to the trash, there is a process set out for that in our cba(have you actually read a cba cover to cover?). The company could ignore it, but that just means it'd get sent to arbitration, where they'd likely loose immediately if they didn't attempt to resolve the issue. We actually win a staggering percentage of our grievances.
     
    amorris311, Derg, Yakob and 2 others like this.
  15. word302

    word302 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    176
    Please no. If ALPA were voted in I think that would be a sign that the newer, cooler heads had prevailed and the current regime would get the boot.
     
    Autothrust Blue likes this.
  16. BobDDuck

    BobDDuck Gone whale watching...

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    14,787
    Likes Received:
    9,236
    What's the difference between "health" and "medical"?

    Also, as you said, Skywest "offers" both, but there is no guarantee (other than the ACA right now) that they will continue to do that or what the coverage will consist off. Ask some of the Mesa guys about language that says "the Company shall provide a medical plan for to the pilot group" and what that actually got them. And you guys don't even have that much.

    Better insurance is negotiated. Better insurance is ensured.
     
    Seggy, pete2800 and Yakob like this.
  17. This is My Screen Name

    This is My Screen Name Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    16
    He assumed we were talking about PSA? Lol
     
  18. pdxcfi

    pdxcfi Flyin' Shoe

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2008
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    92
    I'd say pissed was an understatement. Suing the company in federal court, then getting bonuses written into a LOA the pilots voted on with a pay increase and other goodies. Yep, pissed is a good start. The second lawsuit is already playing out...maybe they can get a hat-trick in before the years over.


     
    z987k, bimmerphile and ppragman like this.
  19. Autothrust Blue

    Autothrust Blue "How can you be so obtuse?"

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    17,496
    Likes Received:
    10,452
    TBQH, I think they'd have more than a mutiny on their hands from more than the pilots, as benefits are Company-common with the exception of 401(k) and LOM.
     
  20. B767

    B767 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,076
    Likes Received:
    1,579
    I get what he's saying. And I get what you're saying. Having been here, and seen, what happened and how we reacted when they reduced the number of water bottles, recommended bringing your own and filling it up on turns, and "not allowing" crew to use the liter bottles...

    Yea, more than a mutiny is about the right phrase. Things got crazy over bottles of water. Would hate to see what happens if they took away medical.
     

Share This Page