Skywest Questions

Fly4Lyfe

Well-Known Member
I was junior manned into the LAX DMA program starting in August. Does anyone have any insights/experience with the training, scheduling (I'll likely be on DMA reserve), Aspen flying, etc.? Is Aspen flying really as hairy as everyone makes it out to be? Do DMA pilots still do regular line flying or is it all ASE trips?

If there are any DMA pilots lurking around here, it would be awesome if you'd PM me.

Thanks all.
 

Autothrust Blue

"I’d make a suggestion but you won’t listen”
I was junior manned into the LAX DMA program starting in August. Does anyone have any insights/experience with the training, scheduling (I'll likely be on DMA reserve), Aspen flying, etc.? Is Aspen flying really as hairy as everyone makes it out to be? Do DMA pilots still do regular line flying or is it all ASE trips?
Aren't the briefing guides in everyone's Jepp subscription anyway, so you can see at least on paper what you're getting into? I think the Vail plates were.

I never did Aspen, so not qualified to comment; what I've been told about the place suggests "hairy but safe" to me. I sort of regret never getting to do it, to be honest - I know that the ASE-qualified people very much enjoyed that flying and it sounds like a place where you have to be right on, and have your ducks in a row, both of which are things that appeal to my "please challenge me" side. I'm almost a little jealous, keep us informed about your experience.

One of the things that I argued, regarding DMA, was that there should be no duty on the seniority list that a seniority list pilot should be incapable of doing, or uncomfortable with doing given the training - if the pilot was incapable or uncomfortable following the training, then something is wrong with either the training or the pilot. The intent of DMA was to provide enough incentive that nobody would be displaced into it, but oh well.
 

saxman

Well-Known Member
Before I left, some of the DMA flying included ASE, Eagle/Vail, Sun Valley, and maybe Mammoth Lakes? I went into MMH once as an FO but the captain only needed the training. Some of those might be seasonal and some, SKW might not even go to anymore.


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I do the DMA on the captain side in DFW. It's fairly recent here but so far I enjoy it. If it keeps me out of Lawton, I'll never leave the program. When I was an FO in Denver before they made the changes the ASE program was fantastic. It's okay now. Schedules are going to be highly variable based on the base. In DFW it is all locals, the other bases I know have very different trips. In the winter you can expect the schedules to change drastically.
 

Autothrust Blue

"I’d make a suggestion but you won’t listen”
Before I left, some of the DMA flying included ASE, Eagle/Vail, Sun Valley, and maybe Mammoth Lakes? I went into MMH once as an FO but the captain only needed the training. Some of those might be seasonal and some, SKW might not even go to anymore.
SAAT 4 was not DMA; there were checkouts that you had to do for certain stations but it generally did not dictate your scheduling. North Bend (?) was/is SAAT 4, which required a supervised entry, but it was not DMA, for instance. I'm pretty sure, at least in my time there MMH was merely SAAT 4, Supervised Entry Required, and not DMA. DMA is a labor construction to replace the "Aspen program," which was, as expected, a pain in the Ass-pen.
 

tcco94

Professional GTA V Pilot
I do the DMA on the captain side in DFW. It's fairly recent here but so far I enjoy it. If it keeps me out of Lawton, I'll never leave the program. When I was an FO in Denver before they made the changes the ASE program was fantastic. It's okay now. Schedules are going to be highly variable based on the base. In DFW it is all locals, the other bases I know have very different trips. In the winter you can expect the schedules to change drastically.
I got awarded SLC DMA right before upgrade and it was similar there. At one point I looked at a DVR and it was all locals and stand ups with one 4 day pairing. It did get a bit better in the winter. I declined and took upgrade anyways as they told me they wanted me to commit November to April in the program.


Something to keep in mind for those FO'S who also want first upgrade. But I'm sure if you're junior manned that's a different situation.
 

Autothrust Blue

"I’d make a suggestion but you won’t listen”
Something to keep in mind for those FO'S who also want first upgrade. But I'm sure if you're junior manned that's a different situation.
There is no position freeze if you are involuntarily assigned, correct? My last interaction with this language was while it was still in draft form.
 

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
SAAT 4 was not DMA; there were checkouts that you had to do for certain stations but it generally did not dictate your scheduling. North Bend (?) was/is SAAT 4, which required a supervised entry, but it was not DMA, for instance. I'm pretty sure, at least in my time there MMH was merely SAAT 4, Supervised Entry Required, and not DMA. DMA is a labor construction to replace the "Aspen program," which was, as expected, a pain in the Ass-pen.
Mammoth, sun valley, Jackson, and North bend are a captain checkout.

I'm perfectly happy making them DMA and never going there again

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Autothrust Blue

"I’d make a suggestion but you won’t listen”
What the "Aspen program" became, a cute little acronym - you're welcome for that new initialism, since there are/were other airports (EGE) that had special qualification requirements above and beyond a supervised entry.

Aspen used to be all out of Denver, and all done with pilots bidding hard lines in DEN, and a bunch of other little things; they received a higher guarantee than the rest of the fleet and (etc.). Naturally, ASE has other service other than DEN, and you can see where that goes.
 

skatergeek

Beet Farmer
DMA is something I wish I got to do before I left there. Unfortunately when I left it was still the ASE program out of DEN so I never bid into it. I have some buddies that do it and absolutely love it.
 
What the "Aspen program" became, a cute little acronym - you're welcome for that new initialism, since there are/were other airports (EGE) that had special qualification requirements above and beyond a supervised entry.

Aspen used to be all out of Denver, and all done with pilots bidding hard lines in DEN, and a bunch of other little things; they received a higher guarantee than the rest of the fleet and (etc.). Naturally, ASE has other service other than DEN, and you can see where that goes.
Designated Mountainous Areas?
Close. Airports.
Okay, cause I kept thinking KDMA. My hometown Air Force base. I was very confused.
 

BEEF SUPREME

Well-Known Member
I was junior manned into the LAX DMA program starting in August. Does anyone have any insights/experience with the training, scheduling (I'll likely be on DMA reserve), Aspen flying, etc.? Is Aspen flying really as hairy as everyone makes it out to be? Do DMA pilots still do regular line flying or is it all ASE trips?

If there are any DMA pilots lurking around here, it would be awesome if you'd PM me.

Thanks all.
Never did DMA at SKYW.

However ASE many, many times as a corporate guy. There was basically no training and boom off ya go to ASE. If I didn’t mess that up you’ll be golden at SKYW DMA.

ASE is a box canyon, you basically get to a certain point and you can’t go missed without some kind of course reversal. In a big valley surrounded by mountains.

I’ve flown CJs and a X into the ASE airport as a captain. You need to be configured at the Red Table VOR. You also need to be cognizant of things like flap altitude limits and where, what altitude, speed you’re gonna hold.

If you stay stable and on your game and always have a plan b you’ll do just fine. There is so much information on ASE flying just start reading up. My biggest challenge as an airline pilot isn’t doing something that will bend metal or hurt anyone. It’s messing up the airline specific procedures.

The SKYW plates for ASE floated around the corporate world and your minimums are way lower than ours.

SKYW training department is awesome and they’ll get you up to speed.


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vheissu

Well-Known Member
I was in the program my last year at the company. The training was really good and the flying in general was a lot of fun for the most part. You’re guaranteed to have have some hairy moments at some point, but that just comes with the territory. On reserve they will try to keep you for DMA trips, but they can still use you for anything. They should send you training information beforehand, but get familiar with the briefing guide and all of the approaches and balked procedures. Captain or FO?
 
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