Serious question, why?

joliet

New Member
Why do people pick up open time, and accept junior man assignments with fellow pilots on furlough at work? It seems MANY MANY new first officers, and some other captains and FOs are going to be picking up open time with their fellow pilots on the street.

Why do people not understand how detrimental this is to the pilot group at each company? Why do people have such horrible ME FIRST attitudes. Why do people make pathetic excuses such as, I cannot live off base pay. Why did you take the job if you couldn't live off guarantee?
 

slpilot

Well-Known Member
So if you werent a pilot, and their was extra shifts to pick up at work, but they were first come first serve, you wouldnt pick them up, just because somebody else doesnt have a job? I understand the need to help the overall pilot group, but you gotta eat.
 

joliet

New Member
So if you werent a pilot, and their was extra shifts to pick up at work, but they were first come first serve, you wouldnt pick them up, just because somebody else doesnt have a job? I understand the need to help the overall pilot group, but you gotta eat.
The other guys have a job, they are just on furlough. That's the point.

You gotta eat? You have a guaranteed base pay. It's not anyones fault but your own if you live beyond your means.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
If your company has people on the street ie furlough, then hopefully lines are built at 75 hours and nobody is picking up open time.

Why? Because by picking up open time you reduce the staffing level at your airline thus delaying the return of your coworkers to their jobs. Remember they lost their jobs and income, by pulling back to 75hrs/month you may lose about 20% of your pay but they hopefully will get their job back sooner.

Sure...there will be those who pick up open time, it's their option. And it's my option to treat them as pariah and denounce their practice. Simple as that.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
Furthermore...I'm sure management would like you to pick up open time. Heck they'd like everyone to do 95 hr lines, be payed block only, no dh pay, minimal vacation time, and be payed less than industry average. It's up to us to better our collective situation through better contracts with higher pay and work rules.
 

slpilot

Well-Known Member
All im saying is some people just dont understand budgeting and live their life the way it is, people are always going to pick up time for money. Times are tough, I dont agree with making situations worse, and doing that, but more people in this world care about themselves than anyone else, its never going to change. Especially when pilots see time and money to be had, but i agree all the little things will help in the long run.
 

joliet

New Member
There is an epidemic of new airline pilots with a me first attitude, who have no problems with throwing their brothers under the bus.
 

3green

Well-Known Member
There is an epidemic of new airline pilots with a me first attitude, who have no problems with throwing their brothers under the bus.
I agree. and this is why pilots as a group are screwing each other. hell, even senior guys/gals have this attitude. Unfortunately, until this changes keep expecting pilots to whipsaw each other.
 

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
I can see your point. However for them picking up open time this month I have nothing wrong with that. However next month is a different story. But you can guarantee people will indeed do it. There are many who are Anti Union and couldnt care less about you. However just remember those picking it up are mostly on reserve anyways. In the end in 2 months when things are reviewed and management says we dont need as many people then they are just shooting themselves in the foot. Guess at that point they will knwo where to point the fingers. Honestly the word hasnt gotten out to many FO's here at our company. Many dont understand or know that its not really an acceptable pratice during times of furlough. However until something comes out via union or older pilots spreading its unacceptable to do so, it'll continue to happen and nothing is going to change.

Its between a rock and a hard place. Some do have to feed their family. Some have kids and a wife and are the ONLY one who has an income. There are many reasons. It sucks but its probably not going to change during this time. I would also say the lady just hit me with the news she doesnt have money to pay for rent come August. That means now I have to find an extra $350 bucks. Hopefully I'll have it. If I dont I'll need the extra money to pay for our place. I guess in the end I'm saying stuff comes up. However we should not judge people because at times we dont know exactly why they are doing what they are. There very well could be a reason for it. In the end as much as it sucks seniority is everything. I know thats a terrible way of looking at it. But I know some who are of the mindset of "I got hired before you and thus if I need to pick it up I will." Lets just hope some attrition happens and thus means we need more people.
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
How can I not "accept" a junior assignment without being insubordinate and then fired? When you have that figured out please gimmie a ring.
 

MQAAord

Scheherazade
Staff member
Accepting a junior manning assignment and picking up OT are two very different things.

If you get a junior man assignment that was assigned within the parameters of the contract, you have to accept it. The only way out is a sick call, fatigue call, or extenuating circumstances (like you being expected to be solely responsible for childcare upon completion of your trip). Generally speaking, you've gotta have a pretty good reason to not "accept" a junior man assignment.

Now, picking up OT is different, and I do not advocate picking up company OT while guys are on furlough. If the company relies on people picking up OT to staff the airline, then that's more people sit on furlough longer.

If a pilot wants additional flying, there is usually plenty of opportunity to pick up trips from fellow pilots looking to drop trips, and that is where I looked for additional flying during the 6 months I was recalled and there were still people on furlough behind me. Then I got furloughed again.

I do not advocate retaliatory measures against someone who does pick up OT with guys on furlough, but I do not support that action.
 

joliet

New Member
Rumor from the training department is they are looking to furlough about another 50 FOs or so by August/September when flying is reduced.


rationalizing picking up open time with guys on furlough



 

wheelsup

Well-Known Member
So wait - no one has picked up open time yet with people on the street and you are complaining? Take a deep breath, relax, it's going to be OK.
 

meyers9163

Well-Known Member
Rumor from the training department is they are looking to furlough about another 50 FOs or so by August/September when flying is reduced.
Guess if the above is true I'll be looking else where :). But who knows what is going to happen. Shall be interesting that is for sure. Although I have not heard the above rumor just yet. Hell most are saying the furloughs are only going to last 2-3 months. If that were the case that's go against the above rumor. Rumors rumors rumors :).

Also I dont know if I'd buy into the 50 or not. I've been told by many people we need around 500 pilots in a normal world. Obviously things arent normal and the movement didnt happen like many thought it would. But perhaps some others can comment on what the typical staffing levels are/were. I know we are losing flying but to my understanding the flying we were to lose happened this last month. I also know we get reduction in the fall. However with the 1st wave of furloughs it was stated they would re-evaluate in 2 month. August thus would be less then a month. I dont see it happening that soon. But I very well could be wrong. Who knows. Guess I'm just optomistic because we only have 554 pilots OVER ALL. You take away 50 additional that'd be 77. That'd be roughly 15% of our pilots. It could happen. But if you get into that range you are probably talking downgrades then as well. HOPEFULLY we dont see what you have suggested.

Keep in mind UALs 950 furloughs is only 12%. Thus I really hope we arent hit that bad its all I'm getting at.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
However until something comes out via union or older pilots spreading its unacceptable to do so, it'll continue to happen and nothing is going to change.
That would probably be considered a job action so its really up to the individual line pilots to make that point.
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
If your company has people on the street ie furlough, then hopefully lines are built at 75 hours and nobody is picking up open time.
In July (first month of the furlough), there appear to be 114 FO lines that have over 80 block hours, and I estimate about a third to a half of those are over 90 hours. There are 32 pairings in the July open time already.


Rumor from the training department is they are looking to furlough about another 50 FOs or so by August/September when flying is reduced.
That seems extreme, but another "winter cut" is not unexpected since that is when the schedules are usually reduced after the summer surge.
 

nkoenig

New Member
I agree. and this is why pilots as a group are screwing each other. hell, even senior guys/gals have this attitude. Unfortunately, until this changes keep expecting pilots to whipsaw each other.
I don't think this is limited to pilots. Pretty sure this is how the world works unfortunately.
 
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