Scary Anti-aviation organization!!!

PhilosopherPilot

Well-Known Member
www.stopthenoise.org

The following is a quote from their "goals" page. Notice the rather amusing part about the FAA being more interested in promoting than regulating. I think most pilots have the opposite opinion.

The AOPA is on them, so I hope they can defend our interests. Their explicit goal is to prevent recreational flying, including flight instruction and aerobatic flying. They want property rights to extend from the surface to infinity, though they do not intend to stop commercial traffic.

If you are following the regs you still get attacked from someone!!

Grayson
 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
Is it even possible for these crazy's to do anything about this? I thought airspace above 500' is federally own, but more than that; collectivally owned? These guys couldn't do anything with their state or local laws because federal law supercedes it, and federal law says you can't do anything about something going on above 500' AGL.

Also, isn't it against the FAR's to practice aerobatics over a populated area and below a certain alt? I want to say 2,500', but I know that's wrong.

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
GA hasn't grown all that much, but encroachment on airports and such is at an all time high.

Methinks a better solution would be to have new homeowners sign disclosure documents before they move into a home near an airport.
 

naunga

New Member
Here's why this will never happen:

They define "recreational flying" as being completely without value. Including flight training.

So...

If no flight training is taking place the airlines unions are going to worry because where are the new pilots going to come from. Think about it. If the average age of an airline pilot is 30 then we have pilots for 30 more years and then the airlines fold.

Riiight. Not going to happen.

Also no flight training means no military pilots. No military pilots means big holes in national security.

Also, the small cargo carries (like FedEx feeders) who fly lower than an airliner will also be grounded.

They say:

"These activities can in no way be construed to have any socially redeeming value. They are performed solely for the benefit of the airmen involved at a painful cost to those on the ground."

Which means that the kid who goes and gets cancer treatment via Angel Flight can't anymore because his flight "has no socially redeeming value"

Of course they state that they're specifically not trying to stop life flight, but Angel Flight is not life flight.

But this would inferr that they are specifcally trying to stop: student pilots, military flights, low flying 121 flights, charter businesses, pipe line patrol, law enforcement aircraft, the goodyear blimp, gliders, and loud birds.

From a legal standpoint (you lawyers out there let me know if I'm mistaken) the wording of what they want to overly vauge and therefore no court is going to grant them what they want.

I expect that we'll be seeing this case thrown out very soon...esspecially now that AOPA is involved.

Naunga

Finally, these people's knowledge of GA and the hundreds of applications that once educated there will start to be desent within their organization. For example once they find out that
 

PhilosopherPilot

Well-Known Member
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Here's why this will never happen:

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I agree that it won't happen, at least not in the vague language they use. They do bear watching though. It would be extremely detrimental to the aviation community if students couldn't perform maneuvers except in very narrow airspace, etc. It is hard enough for the student to fly as it is, much less being terrified of busting airspace.

This sort of stuff could really screw up the airspace if they even got 1/2 of what they want. It is hard enough with TFRs popping up here and there.

G
 

naunga

New Member
I wouldn't sweat it too much really.

The airspace is federally regulated for reasons of National Security.

A group like this would have a better chance going after an airport, but to say that they own everything from the ground up isn't going to work.

If it did that would mean that the average person could prevent a satelite in orbit or the space shuttle from over flying their home.

It just won't work.

Lets suppose for a minute that it does work, it would just take one student in the area to sue them for loss of choosen livihood to put an end to it...or make a lot of people very rich.

It's an interesting arguement I'll give them that, but like so many other law suits (i.e. teenagers suing McDonalds for making them fat) that isn't going to work.

BTW those teens should've sued their parents for either taking them to or giving them the money to buy food at McDonalds. That might have actually worked...but then again who would've paid for the attorneys?

Naunga
 

lilrkt

New Member
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They claim they have no idea who is in what part of the sky when it comes to small planes.

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Do they have any idea how much sky is out there? I also love that they believe that thier property has been designated by the local airports and pilots as some sort of aerobatics box. These people need more help than I can even fathom. I live under the pattern of an airport and I'm sorry the cars going by make more tire noise than the planes flying over.
 

JDMcFly

New Member
Jeez, I wish I could see stunt pilots and aerobatic pilots flying around all summer from my porch... Free air show!



STOP THE NOISE: Too many times I hear a plane go by and as I look up to admire it, I stop paying attention to where I'm walking! Many toes stubbed! Must be stoped!
 

sigmanu499

New Member
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I also love that they believe that thier property has been designated by the local airports and pilots as some sort of aerobatics box.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some places do have aerobatic boxes, like between SZP and FIM VOR.
But really, this is just a group of insane people. They want to own the sky over their houses. They dont even own the land under their houses below a specific level(oil, mineral rights).
They might not want any instruction, hopeing that the airlines will die out with out pilots. Its Just Crazy talk.
 

EricH

New Member
They're all over the place. Them and the environmental types. In Toronto earlier this year, they had a planned bridge to the Island Airport (Kinda resembles Meigs field in a way) cancelled. Not sure what there is we can do about it, except support groups that defends our interests.
 

mastermags

Well-Known Member *giggity*
[ QUOTE ]
Solution- Invest in some BOSE ANR head sets.

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I cant even afford to invest in those!!!
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Solution - wake and realize why the house was so cheap!

It's not like they're building new GA airports that often ...
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
I've flown right over these idiots and it's my school and another place at Nashua airport that I think they're complaining about. Here's what I've been told:

They sit on their porches with telephoto zoom lenses, like, really huge ones like on the football game sidelines. When one of our Cap-10s goes over in our nearby practice area, it's over 6,000 feet and I've never started aerobatics there below 7,000 and sometimes have gone up to 9,000'. They take pictures of us with their cameras zoomed in so much that you can see the tail number on the side of the plane. Then they take it to the local government and file a "complaint" of some sort, saying that the planes are well below the FAR required 1,500' for aerobatics. The complaints get to our school and they are laughed at.

The Cap-10s are grounded right now per an AD for cracks in the spars. When they're fixed, I can't wait to do a spin over these people. There's also several Extras, Pitts, and Decathlons here that fly aerobatics in their area on a daily basis, and about 10 C-172s up at all times, many of them in the area that they're talking about.

The bottom line is, these ignorant pig-dogs bought there houses when the airspace and air traffic was exactly the same as it is now. They have no right to complain and they will continue to listen to the noise that they currently hear everyday.
 

JaceTheAce

Well-Known Member
Wow, stupid Nader followers at it again, with their opinions that lack logic. Any hobby that they believe represents "wealth" they like to tackle, yet the majority of GA pilots are average people making average money. I wish I had the kind of time on my hands that those people have!

It is so sad to hear Steven Pennypacker being personally affected financially by the lawsuits of the STN. That organization successfully administered the removal of its one airplane due to the financial hardships it placed on the flight school from the lawsuits.
 

IT_Pilot

New Member
Hey, I just had a thought. If they claim their property extends above their property, then city hall should love that. Just think of how much the tax base will grow !!!! Then they can sue each other for infringing on each others air!

[/sarcasm]
 
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