Safety Pilot PIC

c172captain

Well-Known Member
Do regionals or any other commercial operators count safety pilot PIC multi time as multi PIC or do they just put it towards your total time?
 

Bandit_Driver

Gold Member
I have never seen an airline ask about safety pilot time. They just ask for PIC, AMEL, etc. If the majority of your time is in this category and they review your books you may not get the job.

Also read the app carefully. Some put limitations on what they will count as pic. (e.g. sole manipulator of controls, or some go further and say you must have signed for the aircraft).
 

Patrick

Well-Known Member
Plenty of them will ask, and many will discount the time as they want you to have been FLYING the plane, not looking out the window. I would be especially weary of going this route in the current hiring market, as there are plenty of qualified guys applying at the various carriers now.
 

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
How would they know it is safety pilot time? As the safety pilot, you aren't required to log anything in the remarks. If they flat out ask you how much time is safety pilot (which I haven't seen on any apps), then don't lie, but you don't have to specifically put anything in your logbook saying it was safety pilots.
 
Plenty of them will ask, and many will discount the time as they want you to have been FLYING the plane, not looking out the window.
This is interesting. You speak as though you have first hand experience and knowledge of this. Since you are making such a strong statement here, care to provide examples that you based this claim upon?
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
Eagle asked me in my interview flat out "How many of these PIC hours behind a seminole where you the one physically controlling the yoke?" When I told him how many hours, he wrote it down. Eagle has been known to care. I interviewed with Air Whiskey and Colgan and neither airline cared.

How did the airline know if I was lying or not? In the remarks section I write "Safety pilot for..."

Also, if you are safety pilot, you cannot legally log a landing. So either you would be lying in your logbook to make it look like non-safety pilot time. Or someone who wanted to dig a little deeper could see that that it was safety pilot time.

-Rob
 
Alrighty, so check in the box for Eagle. *** But with the *** next to Eagle. So, Eagle will ask but will still hire you with safety pilot time. Case in point, v1valarob.

Who else?
 

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
Eagle asked me in my interview flat out "How many of these PIC hours behind a seminole where you the one physically controlling the yoke?" When I told him how many hours, he wrote it down. Eagle has been known to care. I interviewed with Air Whiskey and Colgan and neither airline cared.

How did the airline know if I was lying or not? In the remarks section I write "Safety pilot for..."

Also, if you are safety pilot, you cannot legally log a landing. So either you would be lying in your logbook to make it look like non-safety pilot time. Or someone who wanted to dig a little deeper could see that that it was safety pilot time.

-Rob
I am not saying to be deceptive. I am saying to log it as PIC, which is perfectly legal under the regs and supported by FAA opinion letters.

You can still log the landing if you like, since you are the PIC, it just wouldn't count towards your 90 day recency requirements or you could just take the controls for the landing.
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
You can still log the landing if you like, since you are the PIC, it just wouldn't count towards your 90 day recency requirements or you could just take the controls for the landing.
How are you the PIC? The person next to you is rated in the aircraft, and should no longer have his hood on (he is landing after all.) You are no longer a required crew member.

-Rob
 

Patrick

Well-Known Member
As far as I know (based on conversations I've had with HR people there), Eagle, SkyWest, and Republic care.

As far as logging the time, the safety pilot cannot log x-c nor can he log the landing. If the flight goes into IMC, the safety pilot cannot log anything. Not to mention, taxi, take off, and landing time cannot be logged by the safety pilot. Also, the name of the safety pilot must be recorded.

The entries should look like:

Bob's Logbook: "Safety Pilot: John Smith"

John's Logbook: "Safety Pilot for Bob Barker"

Its not difficult to distinguish safety pilot time when going through a logbook.
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
As far as I know (based on conversations I've had with HR people there), Eagle, SkyWest, and Republic care.

As far as logging the time, the safety pilot cannot log x-c nor can he log the landing. If the flight goes into IMC, the safety pilot cannot log anything. Not to mention, taxi, take off, and landing time cannot be logged by the safety pilot. Also, the name of the safety pilot must be recorded.

The entries should look like:

Bob's Logbook: "Safety Pilot: John Smith"

John's Logbook: "Safety Pilot for Bob Barker"

Its not difficult to distinguish safety pilot time when going through a logbook.
Exactly! At ATP (which Im sure everyone knows that ATP uses the safety pilot deal extensively) the safety pilot was to log the off/on time, while the actual pilot logs the in/out. ATP seminoles actually had 2 hobbs meters.

-Rob
 

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
How are you the PIC? The person next to you is rated in the aircraft, and should no longer have his hood on (he is landing after all.) You are no longer a required crew member.

-Rob

The way the safety pilot is allowed to log it PIC, makes him the PIC. He is agreeing to be ultimately responsible for the safety of the flight and is ACTING as PIC. The flying pilot is LOGGING PIC, but not ACTING as the PIC. It has nothing to do with being a required crew member.

The two pilots may, however, agree prior to initiating the flight
that the safety pilot will be the PIC responsible for the
operation and safety of the aircraft during the flight. If this
is done, then the safety pilot may log all the flight time as PIC
time in accordance with FAR 1.1 and the pilot under the hood may
log, concurrently, all of the flight time during which he is the
sole manipulator of the controls as PIC time in accordance with
FAR 61.51(c)(2)(i). Enclosed please find a prior FAA
interpretation concerning the logging of flight time under
simulated instrument flight conditions. We hope that this
interpretation will be of further assistance to you.
As far as I know (based on conversations I've had with HR people there), Eagle, SkyWest, and Republic care.

As far as logging the time, the safety pilot cannot log x-c nor can he log the landing. If the flight goes into IMC, the safety pilot cannot log anything. Not to mention, taxi, take off, and landing time cannot be logged by the safety pilot. Also, the name of the safety pilot must be recorded.

The entries should look like:

Bob's Logbook: "Safety Pilot: John Smith"

John's Logbook: "Safety Pilot for Bob Barker"

Its not difficult to distinguish safety pilot time when going through a logbook.
Refer to the quote above. It is from the Chief Counsel of the FAA in 1992. It says the safety pilot, if they agree that he is the PIC, then he can log ALL time as PIC.

You are correct that the person under the hood must put the name of the safety pilot, but the safety pilot DOES NOT have to put anywhere in the remarks that he was a safety pilot, or the name of the person he was splitting time with.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
Exactly! At ATP (which Im sure everyone knows that ATP uses the safety pilot deal extensively) the safety pilot was to log the off/on time, while the actual pilot logs the in/out.
-Rob
Nope...didn't know that. How much "Safety Pilot" time does one typically get there?
 

v1valarob

Well-Known Member
Counsel of the FAA in 1992. It says the safety pilot, if they agree that he is the PIC, then he can log ALL time as PIC.

You are correct that the person under the hood must put the name of the safety pilot, but the safety pilot DOES NOT have to put anywhere in the remarks that he was a safety pilot, or the name of the person he was splitting time with.
Well back in 1992 you didnt have schools like ATP who milk the regs to letter. I also bet if you asked an inspector at a different FSDO, you would get another answer.

Either way when your sitting in front of a pilot during an interview, he knows exactly what the deal is. He isnt some chump who you can trick into believing you have more hours of legal PIC when you where just sitting there staring out the window.

And to Baronman, during your XC phase at ATP you and another newly minted instrument pilot hop into a seminole and fly it around the country. You "fly" for 70-75 hours. Normally half of that is safety pilot time. You would probably leave ATP with around 100 hours as sole manipulator and 30 hours as safety pilot.

-Rob
 
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