Representing Pan Am?

Arky

New Member
Hello all, I am new here and I have a few questions.


1. Why is there so much arguing concerning PAIFA?

2. Why do the students here who are attending Pan Am insist on representing thier school in this manner?


The way you act doesn't put PAIFA in too positive a light IMHO. Arguing, insulting eachother, etc.., etc..

Is this the kind of behavior that can be expected from Pan Am students (in general)?

Thanks!

Arky
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Pilots are usually "Type-A" personalities - love to argue.
The internet is anonymous - you can say almost anything with threat of repercussion
The internet lacks the ability to be subtlely sarcastic - things said in jest are taken seriously.

Add those three things together and we've got a flame war!
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
Hate to say it but...the fish smells from the head down. Pan-Am management has created this turmoil within their own school. It is kind of sad to see so many students upset with their decision to attend the school. ILS
 

TheFlyingTurkey

Fetus Worshiper
For some reason I have managed to stay out of said "turmoil".
People tend to make their own "turmoil".
The only students that I know of who are upset with P/A are the ones who didn't want to take ACE. They left.
Dont get me wrong, there are some anoying little things that bother me also, but they are little, and in the grand scheme of things, insignificant.

The Turk.
 

panampilot

New Member
I agree. You can look back on all my posts and I consider myself a very happy customer. The problem we have here is that there are 3 or 4 eternally pissed off people about their experience here. Unfortunately I would guess that only 5% of the students at Pan Am even know about Jetcareers. If they did, I guarantee there would be a lot more sharing their good experiences and maybe bad experiences.

You can't judge a book by it's cover. Pan Am has been a great place for me and people like Turk. Again, I won't get into the FBO vs. Academy battle with Mavmb1. It worked great for me and it may not work great for you. Pan Am can't please everybody.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately I would guess that only 5% of the students at Pan Am even know about Jetcareers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, get the word out, have 'em come and talk, generate more students, voila!
 

Tired

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Hate to say it but...the fish smells from the head down. Pan-Am management has created this turmoil within their own school. It is kind of sad to see so many students upset with their decision to attend the school. ILS

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain how Pan Am management has done this. Yes, there are a couple of upset students at Pan Am, just there have been an equal amount of people that are satisfied. Also, remember this, satisfied people don’t hang around a web board for years after talking about what a great experience they had.

Also, in the Pan Am forum it seems that whenever something that is the slightest bit negative a small group of disgruntled students make a huge issue out of it. What would happen in the Pan Am forum if it came out that some students had spent $25k to get hired at a certain airline, but it turns out that they won’t go to that airline for quite a long time. In the Pan Am forum you’d have a bunch of people saying they were cheated and lied too. Yet, this is the exact situation you’re facing over at FSA. But what can I expect from someone who spouts off stuff like this…

[ QUOTE ]
I can guarantee you that a 350-500 hour pilot trained by Flight Safety for ASA will fly circles around a 1500-2000 hour CFI who got hired off the street when they go head to head in the ground school in Atlanta.

[/ QUOTE ]
 

E7B

New Member
I tend to agree with the 5% approximation. Of the more than 200 pilots at Pan Am, and noting the 30 to 40 views that a Pan Am forum thread gets per post. It seems there are about 10 people who are actually at Pan Am that post here, the 5%ers.

I personally don’t see these 5%ers arguing with and insulting each other. More often they’re defending their school from bogus posts from guys like CLR4ILS who says things like they lost their 141 status or they’re about to file bankruptcy.

So to answer your question Arky, “Is this the kind of behavior that can be expected from Pan Am students (in general)?” I would say no, the pilots actually at Pan Am know it’s the place to be. But if you look a few posts up to a Flight Safety pilot, CLR4, you can see that is the kind of behavior you can expect from him, a bona fide flamer.
 

Mavmb

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I agree. You can look back on all my posts and I consider myself a very happy customer. The problem we have here is that there are 3 or 4 eternally pissed off people about their experience here. Unfortunately I would guess that only 5% of the students at Pan Am even know about Jetcareers. If they did, I guarantee there would be a lot more sharing their good experiences and maybe bad experiences.

You can't judge a book by it's cover. Pan Am has been a great place for me and people like Turk. Again, I won't get into the FBO vs. Academy battle with Mavmb1. It worked great for me and it may not work great for you. Pan Am can't please everybody.

[/ QUOTE ]


3 or 4? Yeah right, check the posts on here from the last year. There's a lot more people upset with the school than that. Could it be because the school might possibly have some problems? I don't know; just a hunch.
 

Mavmb

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I tend to agree with the 5% approximation. Of the more than 200 pilots at Pan Am, and noting the 30 to 40 views that a Pan Am forum thread gets per post. It seems there are about 10 people who are actually at Pan Am that post here, the 5%ers.

I personally don’t see these 5%ers arguing with and insulting each other. More often they’re defending their school from bogus posts from guys like CLR4ILS who says things like they lost their 141 status or they’re about to file bankruptcy.

So to answer your question Arky, “Is this the kind of behavior that can be expected from Pan Am students (in general)?” I would say no, the pilots actually at Pan Am know it’s the place to be. But if you look a few posts up to a Flight Safety pilot, CLR4, you can see that is the kind of behavior you can expect from him, a bona fide flamer.


[/ QUOTE ]


Everyone take a look at E7B. If a school has so many problems that it has to have it's administration on here doing damage control, then it's probably in your best interest to stay away from that school.
 

Mavmb

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Hello all, I am new here and I have a few questions.


1. Why is there so much arguing concerning PAIFA?

2. Why do the students here who are attending Pan Am insist on representing thier school in this manner?


The way you act doesn't put PAIFA in too positive a light IMHO. Arguing, insulting eachother, etc.., etc..

Is this the kind of behavior that can be expected from Pan Am students (in general)?

Thanks!

Arky

[/ QUOTE ]


Arky that's just the way the management is at the school. They already have your money because at Pan Am you have to pay up front, so they don't have to worry about treating anyone like a customer. And if they piss you off enough to make you leave, the management still gets to enforce that 2,000 penalty charge out of you, and make tons of interest off your loan in the year it will take you to get your money back. Essentially, the worse they treat you, the more money the can get out of you. It's just business.
 

panampilot

New Member
Oh, it didn't take long to bring him out of the cage. This is a perfect example of someone who just can't move on with life. He continues to lurk in this forum to throw out any crap he can. Mav is exactly who I am talking about. He is one of the three people who continue to bash Pan Am. He will be here forever. While the rest of us are doing something productive with our lives, he will still be building his 20 hours a month and complaining on the Pan Am forum. Congratulations Mav!
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
I have no complaints about Pan Am.......except for the fact that I always seem to meet them with a near miss every time I want to enter VR-239 at Lake Pleasant.

Not a hit on them....it just seems I always come across their aircraft rather than any other GA.
 

dakovich

Well-Known Member
when i was there, there were plenty of people who knew of JC and just watched the goings on here. for the most part it was well known that anyone talking up at the school was "blackballed"...or so was the fear. hence not many people wanted to speak up about anything, which is probably the best decision one can make. why bother getting involved. when it came to students talking amongst themselves about things, that was a totally different story. i have never seen so many unhappy individuals as i did while i was there. some made there own problems, but many had legit reasons to be upset. sad thing was the things that bothered students would have been quite easy for the school to fix. but anyway, i don't want to even get into it.

the basic thing is, if you play by the "company" rules, don't speak up and have no problem with wearing a "mask" while there then things will be cool for you.

thing is many people just can't operate that way, and it would be nice if they didn't have to do that to fit in.
 

Tired

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Not a hit on them....it just seems I always come across their aircraft rather than any other GA.


[/ QUOTE ]

Proof that we have more operations then any other flightschool in the area. Maybe there is a reason most of the aircraft you hear on Phoenix Approach or 122.75 are Pan Am aircraft.

MikeD. Just because we are there doesn't mean we don't see you. There is a finite amount of practice area, and it gets really busy up there. Typically in that area I moniter both the practice area freq and get radar services from Luke. That's in addition to a regular scan. I'm doing everything I can to make it safe up there.
 

Tired

New Member
[quoteEveryone take a look at E7B. If a school has so many problems that it has to have it's administration on here doing damage control, then it's probably in your best interest to stay away from that school.

[/ QUOTE ]

PanAm bashers can't decide which way they want it. If no admin people post in the forum then they'll complain that admin won't address the questions asked here. Yet, when admin finally shows up like they wanted they still complain.

You just can't win an argument with irrational people.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
[
MikeD. Just because we are there doesn't mean we don't see you. There is a finite amount of practice area, and it gets really busy up there. Typically in that area I moniter both the practice area freq and get radar services from Luke. That's in addition to a regular scan. I'm doing everything I can to make it safe up there.

[/ QUOTE ]

As are we when we go through there. And that's the best we all can do up there, in the Lake Pleasant area where all the flight training area traffic, military traffic, sightseeing traffic, transiting traffic, glider traffic, and all other GA ops come together.

See and avoid is the name of the game. And so far, I think we're all doing a fair job.

A miss is as good as a mile.
 

FLDiver

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
when i was there, there were plenty of people who knew of JC and just watched the goings on here. for the most part it was well known that anyone talking up at the school was "blackballed"...or so was the fear. hence not many people wanted to speak up about anything, which is probably the best decision one can make. why bother getting involved. when it came to students talking amongst themselves about things, that was a totally different story. i have never seen so many unhappy individuals as i did while i was there. some made there own problems, but many had legit reasons to be upset. sad thing was the things that bothered students would have been quite easy for the school to fix. but anyway, i don't want to even get into it.

the basic thing is, if you play by the "company" rules, don't speak up and have no problem with wearing a "mask" while there then things will be cool for you.

thing is many people just can't operate that way, and it would be nice if they didn't have to do that to fit in.

[/ QUOTE ]

WOW...couldnt have said it better myself !! JC is alot more popular in the school than most people realize...I found out about JC at Pan Am and so did a lot of other students (former and current) that I know. They are out there, they are smart and don't really want to get invloved in any more politics than they already have to put up with . Since I am out of the school and they have no impact on my decisions or my life, I could give a rats hairy a$$ about them and I (as well as others) can shed some true light on the subject. Some people on this forum are correct in saying that the current students don't bicker back and forth with each other..usually the arguments are between former students who got ripped off and current Pan Am admin and staff who think the school is the bomb. I will say it again, the school (Ft. Pierce) has potential if they would fire half the admin and change the attitudes toward the people who help pay their bills.
 

FLDiver

New Member
[ QUOTE ]

PanAm bashers can't decide which way they want it. If no admin people post in the forum then they'll complain that admin won't address the questions asked here. Yet, when admin finally shows up like they wanted they still complain.

You just can't win an argument with irrational people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point..but MY view is, the official Pan Am admin will not address anything on this website. What most other people call admin are usually just staff like current CFI's who can only regurgitate what the official admin people want them to know. The Pan Am admin lie to the CFI's as well, just ask Cassosa. Don't, for one second think, that students don't overhear staff members complain about the policies and politics at that place.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
[
Good point..but MY view is, the official Pan Am admin will not address anything on this website. What most other people call admin are usually just staff like current CFI's who can only regurgitate what the official admin people want them to know. The Pan Am admin lie to the CFI's as well, just ask Cassosa. Don't, for one second think, that students don't overhear staff members complain about the policies and politics at that place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do the Pan Am upper management have any real world flight experience, or are they inbred to the top, so to speak?
 
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