Radio comms argument

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
Oh please, lol. I've been based in ORD for a few years and the times I've heard Ground/Tower raise their voice or annoyed, it's been due to mainline aircraft not listening/going the wrong way/doing the wrong thing/botching a clearance, not the RJ's doing 5-6 legs a day in and out of that airport.
You haven't lived until you've heard "legacy 8somethig heavy" berate tower because they have to wait for a hole in arrivals big enough for their enormous heads to depart... ;)

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falconvalley

Well-Known Member
Oh please, lol. I've been based in ORD for a few years and the times I've heard Ground/Tower raise their voice or annoyed, it's been due to mainline aircraft not listening/going the wrong way/doing the wrong thing/botching a clearance, not the RJ's doing 5-6 legs a day in and out of that airport.
It’s usually the other domicile folks who haven’t been to (K)XXX in years, on a Tuesday, in the morning, when things are really moving.
 
No. It’s Aeromexico.
I mean, sure...every once in a while one of the foreign carriers butchers a read back or something, but I think most people expect them to have trouble sometimes, and the clearances get modified accordingly (slower, more thorough, etc).

But when a ground controller's blood pressure is up or they're chastising someone for stopping the flow, reading back the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing, asking 3 times for a repeat of the taxi instructions, the overwhelming majority of the time it's mainline AA, Delta, and UA. Not the regional pilots who are in and out of there 5-6 times a day each day of the trip.
 

bucksmith

Did you lock the doors?
Proper phraseology is a pro tip. Shouldn't lose your crap in the presence of improper phraseology, but saying "zero", and exercising brevity should be encouraged. If you enjoy hearing yourself talk, take up ham radios or something, otherwise, stfu on the radio.
With non standard stuff that makes you feel good? Think about your audience and the timing.
If you're flying into a cold dark airport and a position report with your intentions doesn't give you a warm fuzzy and it makes you feel better to say,
"Any traffics in the area, please advise"
Knock yourself out. But you sound like an idiot.
And if you're blasting into JYO (or insert your favorite busy non towered airport) on a clear Saturday afternoon after a week of bad weather on a 4 mile final after a late handoff without monitoring 20 out and saying that crap? It's unsafe.
If I dont chime in with "that's what we've been doing!" soon enough, you'll get 4 student pilots confused about what to say, 3 cfi's trying to sound cool for the citation, 2 helpful locals informing you about the other aircraft in the pattern and 1 Doctor in his cirrus that will begin his argument about straight in approaches.
It's not a proper call and any reason you come up with about it being ok, is simply an implication of your lack of preparation and professionalism. Monitor inbound and give a 15 mile call before you get frequency change. What's so hard?
 

bLizZuE

Fly airplanes, drink beer, never at the same time.
I mean, sure...every once in a while one of the foreign carriers butchers a read back or something, but I think most people expect them to have trouble sometimes, and the clearances get modified accordingly (slower, more thorough, etc).

But when a ground controller's blood pressure is up or they're chastising someone for stopping the flow, reading back the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing, asking 3 times for a repeat of the taxi instructions, the overwhelming majority of the time it's mainline AA, Delta, and UA. Not the regional pilots who are in and out of there 5-6 times a day each day of the trip.
Uh huh.
 
Proper phraseology is a pro tip. Shouldn't lose your crap in the presence of improper phraseology, but saying "zero", and exercising brevity should be encouraged. If you enjoy hearing yourself talk, take up ham radios or something, otherwise, stfu on the radio.
With non standard stuff that makes you feel good? Think about your audience and the timing.
If you're flying into a cold dark airport and a position report with your intentions doesn't give you a warm fuzzy and it makes you feel better to say,
"Any traffics in the area, please advise"
Knock yourself out. But you sound like an idiot.
And if you're blasting into JYO (or insert your favorite busy non towered airport) on a clear Saturday afternoon after a week of bad weather on a 4 mile final after a late handoff without monitoring 20 out and saying that crap? It's unsafe.
If I dont chime in with "that's what we've been doing!" soon enough, you'll get 4 student pilots confused about what to say, 3 cfi's trying to sound cool for the citation, 2 helpful locals informing you about the other aircraft in the pattern and 1 Doctor in his cirrus that will begin his argument about straight in approaches.
It's not a proper call and any reason you come up with about it being ok, is simply an implication of your lack of preparation and professionalism. Monitor inbound and give a 15 mile call before you get frequency change. What's so hard?
I’m going to say it twice now, just to piss you off.
 

Jordan93

Well-Known Member
But when a ground controller's blood pressure is up or they're chastising someone for stopping the flow, reading back the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing, asking 3 times for a repeat of the taxi instructions, the overwhelming majority of the time it's mainline AA, Delta, and UA. Not the regional pilots who are in and out of there 5-6 times a day each day of the trip.
You know what gets my blood pressure up? When ground almost taxies 10 United heavies into me, doesn’t even warn me until after we’re about to hit, then casually says, “sorry Endeavor, give way to United.”
 

Cptnchia

Dissatisfied Customer
But when a ground controller's blood pressure is up or they're chastising someone for stopping the flow, reading back the wrong thing, doing the wrong thing, asking 3 times for a repeat of the taxi instructions, the overwhelming majority of the time it's mainline AA, Delta, and UA. Not the regional pilots who are in and out of there 5-6 times a day each day of the trip.
Yeah, maybe In ORD. What I’ve witnessed in the 20+ years of this is guys/gals, regardless of regional, mainline, legacy status who are not familiar with local field Ops. Take ATL for example. When crossing the 9L-27R inbound, don’t stop to call ground. Keep rolling. If they want you, they’ll call. JFK is the same. LGA, you better call right away! Same with MIA.

I’d say your sample size is way too small if you’re just using one major airport as your example.
 
No. It’s Aeromexico.
Yeah, maybe In ORD. What I’ve witnessed in the 20+ years of this is guys/gals, regardless of regional, mainline, legacy status who are not familiar with local field Ops. Take ATL for example. When crossing the 9L-27R inbound, don’t stop to call ground. Keep rolling. If they want you, they’ll call. JFK is the same. LGA, you better call right away! Same with MIA.

I’d say your sample size is way too small if you’re just using one major airport as your example.

I love how it was all good when all the blame was placed on RJ's way back on page 6. You guys had no problems with that. But as soon as it's suggested that almighty mainline/legacy are the culprits too, all of a sudden you guys spring into action. Deflection. Denial. Justifications.


@Acrofox is very much correct about the mainline elitism on this board as of late.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
Yeah, maybe In ORD. What I’ve witnessed in the 20+ years of this is guys/gals, regardless of regional, mainline, legacy status who are not familiar with local field Ops. Take ATL for example. When crossing the 9L-27R inbound, don’t stop to call ground. Keep rolling. If they want you, they’ll call. JFK is the same. LGA, you better call right away! Same with MIA.

I’d say your sample size is way too small if you’re just using one major airport as your example.
If only there was a book that had some standards for how ATC should operate.
 

bLizZuE

Fly airplanes, drink beer, never at the same time.
I love how it was all good when all the blame was placed on RJ's way back on page 6. You guys had no problems with that. But as soon as it's suggested that almighty mainline/legacy are the culprits too, all of a sudden you guys spring into action. Deflection. Denial. Justifications.


@Acrofox is very much correct about the mainline elitism on this board as of late.
Massive eye roll.
 

Houston

Well-Known Member

bucksmith

Did you lock the doors?

bLizZuE

Fly airplanes, drink beer, never at the same time.
There is no us vesus them by the way. If I said “all RJ pilots are just kids with no experience” I would be crucified. But it’s somehow elitist of me to take issue with someone saying “it’s just the mainline old farts mucking up the radio.” Everyone makes mistakes. Everywhere.

As an aside, some of those mainline guys aren’t based in ORD and maybe they haven’t been there in a while. You might have the taxiways memorized but not everyone is based there. Idk. My main point would be this: relax.

-Not too far gone five leg RJ guy
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
There is no us vesus them by the way. If I said “all RJ pilots are just kids with no experience” I would be crucified. But it’s somehow elitist of me to take issue with someone saying “it’s just the mainline old farts mucking up the radio.” Everyone makes mistakes. Everywhere.

As an aside, some of those mainline guys aren’t based in ORD and maybe they haven’t been there in a while. You might have the taxiways memorized but not everyone is based there. Idk. My main point would be this: relax.

-Not too far gone five leg RJ guy
It sounds to me like a large part of the problem is ATC deciding they’re exempt from having standard procedures.
 
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