Questions Pam Am CFIs

VFT99

New Member
OK, No BS or flames just some honest answers please.

1. How many Pan Am CFIs have been hired in the last 12 months and to which airlines?

2. How many hours do you guys fly a month on average?

3. How much multi time do the MEIs get?

4. What is the average total time and ME time for a Pan Am CFI?

Thanks

I'm going to ask the same on ATP and Comair.
 

dakovich

Well-Known Member
i'm not a CFI but i am aware of i think 6 CFI's that got hired. i think its six, 5 of them i know of definetly. thing is they weren't Panam grads, i think most of them came from FSA and they were the senior instructors at Panam that mostly were just doing stage checks and what not.

hope an instructor will answer yer other questions for ya, theres not to many who really speak on here
 

dakovich

Well-Known Member
oh, but as for a friend of mine who is an instructor...i think he said he had like 820 total hours and somewhere near 200 multi at that point. guess you have to work your way into the multi section, you don't just start out there or anything. anyway hope that helps
 

flyinHI

New Member
In answer to your questions here is what I have seen:

I can not account for both campuses but CFI's have gone to
AirNet, Chautauqua, and Trans States.
the number that have left is really good compared to the number of instructors that actually have the minimum time to leave.

The numbers of hours you fly a month is varied by instructor to instructor, and depending on where your students are.
The average I have seen is 50-75 hrs a month realistically.

Those that have their MEI's and are flying multi students do really well, you can expect to get the 50-75 hrs a month.

Your question on average total time, and total ME time, will vary from each campus and at what time you ask. Our most senior instructors have been hired away lowering the average.
 

justme

New Member
I am not a CFI but I am currently a student at Pan Am. From what I understand The CFIs work on a 10 week rotation. Private/Commercial for ten weeks, Instrument for ten weeks, then Muti for ten weeks. I also believe a bidding system is used to determine who gets what(I'm not completely sure of this though). I know of four CFIs that got hired out of Pan Am within the last few months(I think threre may be a couple more then that though). As someone else has responded, when I ask CFIs at Pan Am how many hours they are getting each month they all say it is either "feast or famine". Sometimes they only have one student, other times they have more then they can handle.
One instructor I know of has logged around 200+ multi hours in the last 2-3 months. He also has over 1200tt and is still waiting to be hired away.
All that being said, I would recomend against Pan Am simply because it sucks a**. I know there are ALOT of unhappy people around this place, and it seems like people are leaving left and right to go to other schools.
 

Tryp20

New Member
I am a flight instructor for Pan Am at DVT. I haven't spent a lot of time on this board, primarily because of it's negativity and bad mouthing about Pan Am. I, personally, have had a great experience here. I came here from the mid-west, quit my job, sold my car and for a year staight, totally dedicated my life to aviation. I couldn't afford not to. I went through the program, Private through ACE. It cost me $50,000. Money well spent. They hired me as an instructor. I kept my mouth shut, stayed out of trouble and under the radar. Went to work every day and learned so much as an instructor. With the help of Pan Am's administration I got hired at Trans States Airlines a couple of weeks ago. With 1,050 hours TT and 115 multi. In today's market, that's incredible!

FlyinHI is correct in saying instructors build approx. 50-75 hours a month. Give or take. The multi rotation is based on seniority. And administration is pushing for ACE grads to have first dibs on that rotation.

I understand that Pan Am is not for every one, but it was a great decision for me.
 

Billybob

New Member
Sorry if it's a little off the subject line (but close enough): have any of the disgruntled ex PanAm people scored a regional job yet? Best I can see, the people that leave here or get "gouged" put minimal effort into studying and flight rehearsal - therefore they end up re-doing everything. Essentially, it amazes me that these people judge themselves as qualified to give 'career' advice. And while they're going out the door to a new school, another PanAm CFI is off to Trans States, Chataqua, etc. Sure, the school is not perfect and there are some things I'd change, but overall my experience has been good. I can train cheaper at PanAm than in my hometown (unless I want to fly junk that spends more time in maintenance than on the ramp) and faster without having to deal with the hassles of scheduling. Sure, the marketing people make it sound like a trip down the yellow brick road, but show me a flight school that doesn't and I'll sacrifice my first born in your name. Times are lean for hiring, but people are still moving out of PanAm (I can count four in the past few weeks - not bad for slow times). You get what you give, and if you're searching for perfection in ANY human institution you may as well be searching for a Captain's Seat on a 747 with 300 hours - it ain't gonna happen! You just have to find the best path - even though some of the people on that path won't always be nice and they might not coddle you.
 

panampilot

New Member
Actually seven have been hired from the Phoenix campus alone in the last 3 weeks. I back up Billybob. I also had a great experience at Pan Am. Those who read these threads must know that there are two sides to every story. The good and the bad.
 

VFT99

New Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
have any of the disgruntled ex PanAm people scored a regional job yet? Best I can see, the people that leave here or get "gouged" put minimal effort into studying and flight rehearsal

[/ QUOTE ]

I specifically wanted to avoid your kind of puerile comment, I have flown with Pan Am graduates, CFIs and students along with other a couple of other flightschools and can assure you that there really is no difference in the overall outcome. In fact Pan Am trains it's students very well for their end product which is an airline oriented graduate familiar with flow checks and airline style checklists. Their instrument flying skills are generally excellent, However, real stick and rudder skill and coordination is often missing.

Let's get back to the subject, of those who left recently, how much time did they have and were they ACE grads or CFIs who came from elsewhere?

Thank you
 

jetdriver70

New Member
All recent hires from DVT are Ace grads and are 1000+ and at least 50+. No great totals but the airlines who come to DVT ( and they do) like the ace program. And the comment on the stick and rudder is a little weak.
 

VFT99

New Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
And the comment on the stick and rudder is a little weak.


[/ QUOTE ]

How much aerobatic training do Pam Am students get? Every "pilot" should spend some time upside down and at extreme flight attitudes.
 

Billybob

New Member
If it matters about flight time - I guess I don't have much in the whole scheme of things. As far as solid real world competition time, I've got plenty of that. I've been in job competition just as tough as the airlines (and won, by the way - every time), and all of the pilots and recruiters tell me it is no different than any other competitive market. What I'm saying here is that a tough market demands that a prospective employee gets every gold star that they can on a resume, and even though a Pan Am on a resume doesn't carry the entire weight, it does give an advantage in certain airlines. There are a lot of people that are doing alright with Pan Am, and they don't seem to mind the rules of a strict school if it is in the best interest of their career. There are two very different sides to each story, and I've talked to plenty of people who have finished within their original budget. If it helps, I got hired over 4,500 (yes, that is a real number) other people in my last job - is that good enough?

By the way, what does "purile" mean?
 

VFT99

New Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I've got plenty of that. I've been in job competition just as tough as the airlines (and won, by the way - every time),

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh go on, tell us what you do...


Puerile adj. childish
 

guido161st

New Member
yeah I'd love to hear where you work! We have way to many people who think they know so much about the aviation industry just cause they are some gung ho in something else. It's a whole nother ball game- and don't think that former Pan Am students amount to nothing or that they don't study that's garbage. It's people like you that think that they have a solid right answer on something they know nothing about. Yes there are people who like the school, and there are people who hate the school. There are always two sides to everything, but then there's always that guy who comes along and thinks that there way is the right way. There isn't a right way in this business, you get what you put into it- but I'm sure you knew that cause it seems like you know everything. I think I speak for all the "disgruntled Pan Am-ers" when I say that we were asked about our experiences and we explained OUR experiences, and said what WE think should be done- but we all understand that not everyone has the same experience or issues. This isn't meant to blast you but to merely show you that there is no right answer, which you will learn someday durning your training. No matter what you choose, someone is going to tell you that you messed up, just don't say that those who decided to leave Pan Am- amount to nothing- nor does it put is any farther behind those who stay. Good Luck
 

guido161st

New Member
Also- the only 'career advice' I've given was when I have been asked for my OPINION. I don't go on this forum telling people not to go to Pan Am- I tell them what happened to me and why I wouldn't go there if I had the chance to do it over. By the way- for me personally- I'm farther along in my aviation career than if I would have stayed at Pan Am.
 

Billybob

New Member
Touchy, touchy, you put comments out in cyberspace and get all girly when you are challenged. I call 'em as I see 'em. Some people don't like the rules here, and some don't like the intensity, and some don't think the effort is worth a reward that is not fully guaranteed - so they leave. It doesn't make or break them in any respect, but their are a lot of people who have got their first shot through Pan Am. Like you said: you get out of it what you put into it - and that's the only guarantee that anyone can give. If you want to compare resumes, then how many competitive, CREDIBLE, organizations / careers / jobs have you been involved in? Personally, I can claim a spot with the USFS Smokejumpers (which is the nations most elite airborne wildfire suppression group); a spot in one of the largest and most competitive fire departments in the country; and a full partnership in a government consulting business (we talk with the people just below the president, embassy heads, corporate VPs', etc). You say you are tired of people from the outside coming in and giving advice, but maybe those people have something to show you about competition. And, by the way - the game is the same everywhere, just with a few different rules. But that's only out of the mouths of airline (major) captains, doctors, and multiple CEO's - so what could they really know?
 

guido161st

New Member
I hardly consider this a challenge! -- and I'm not talking about job competiton, obviously aviation is one of the toughest- I was commenting on your original post of saying that Pan Amers are more competive, and likely to get the job- my point was how could you say that when you have know idea what your talking about?
 
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