Question for the CFI's here.

naunga

New Member
Question for the CFI\'s here.

So I soloed in October. Since that time I've put in about 8 hours of solo time.

Obviously I'm going to talk to my CFI about this, but I thought I'd take a poll on this.

I feel like I haven't spent enough in the plane flying solo. What do you tell your post-solo students that they should be doing in terms of solo time (how much, not manuvers)?

Let me know.

Naunga
 

Cosmo1999

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

well under part 61 you need 10 hours of solo time including 5 hours of solo cross counrty time. I usually had my students do 2 solos for an hour or hour and a half each after the initial solo. Then id have them do a couple solo cross countrys including long cross country to get their 5 hours solo x/c time. After this we would review for the checkride and I would have them do one last solo flight to get up to 10 hours solo time so they could practice for the checkride... If its part 141 then you just solo when the syllabus tells you to. I always followed the syllabus under part 61 so it works out about the same as far as solo time goes. I dont see the need for much more than 10-15 hours of solo time but thats just me.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

8 hours of solo time before the solo cross countries sounds pretty good to me.

My students typically do less. Philosophically, I think that the pre-cross country solo phase is designed to be primarily a confidence builder. After the two initial supervised solos (which typically take less than an hour between the two of them), I ask my students to do either 2 or 3 more solos. One is staying in the pattern practicing landings; another is going our to the practice area and doing some maneuvers. Sometimes the student just wants the feel of going out to the practice area and finding his way back. That where the sometimes 3 comes in. So that's maybe another 2.5 - 4 hours at the most.

There's still plenty to learn and plenty of time to fine tune maneuvers later. And you'll have plenty of solo time when you do your solo cross countries.
 

Tim06

New Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

You also need more PIC time if you are going for your instrument rating.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

[ QUOTE ]
You also need more PIC time if you are going for your instrument rating.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to learn to walk before you can run.

I'd say you're doing fine with solo time, naunga. Once you knock out your solo cross countries, it'll add a decent amount. 10-15 hrs. of solo time is fairly typical by the time students usually go for their checkrides.

Getting any flying in with this lovely weather we've been having? It seems like its been snowing every day for the past week! We should do lunch again sometime before you head down south!
 

Tim06

New Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You also need more PIC time if you are going for your instrument rating.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to learn to walk before you can run.


[/ QUOTE ]

Definatly...just adding the point that eventually you will need more PIC.
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

Everytime I say something like this, somebody rushed to slice off my head...but I'll say it anyway.


Almost all of my private pilot training was split evenly between solo time and dual instruction. I think it helped me alot, but I also know alot of people that just barely made the cut for their 10 hours of required solo flight training.

I recommend to people that if they're progressing along well, ask for more opportunities to fly solo!! It's a great confidence booster, and it's alot of fun! If you want to know the 2 reasons most CFIs don't let their students solo more, they are:

1) CFIs are not confident in their own abilities, and feel the need to cover their tails,

and

2) CFIs don't get to log student pilot solo flight time.

Every CFI will defend the first one to the death, and deny the first one to the end!!!!
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

[ QUOTE ]

2 reasons most CFIs don't let their students solo more, they are:

1) CFIs are not confident in their own abilities, and feel the need to cover their tails,

and

2) CFIs don't get to log student pilot solo flight time.

[/ QUOTE ]I guess that might be true for some. But remember that since most students do not take their checkrides in the minimum of 40 hours, every excess solo minute, however much fun, is excess cost. If a student wants to fly extra solos, I'm thrilled. And if the student wants to practice alone and just show me once in a while how things are going, heck, that gives me more time for going up and enjoying =my=self.
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

2 reasons most CFIs don't let their students solo more, they are:

1) CFIs are not confident in their own abilities, and feel the need to cover their tails,

and

2) CFIs don't get to log student pilot solo flight time.

[/ QUOTE ]I guess that might be true for some. But remember that since most students do not take their checkrides in the minimum of 40 hours, every excess solo minute, however much fun, is excess cost. If a student wants to fly extra solos, I'm thrilled. And if the student wants to practice alone and just show me once in a while how things are going, heck, that gives me more time for going up and enjoying =my=self.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just as many students don't finish in 40 hours, many do!! If we begin flight training being told that most people don't finish in 40 hours, how will we ever possibly find the motivation to do just that?

That's why I like to tell people that it's very possible to finish up in close to the minimum time (40-45 hours). Tell someone that in the beginning and then plan everything around that. It can happen!!!
 

Acadia

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

I always make the first three solos supervised. So for the first three I always go for a quick spin with the student first to make sure they are on the money. After that if they are performing well they can go out and practice whenever they want provided the weather/wind conditions are better than the conditons I have placed as limits on their solo endorsement.

I have learned to place a two-week limit on the endorsement. In other words a student must have flown with an instructor in the previous two weeks to continue soloing unsupervised. This is important to me because I have several students and any given time flying in club or personal aircraft that I have no control over. I don’t like the idea of giving a solo endorsement and then having the student vanish and legally able to fly for the next 90 days on my ticket with no refresher or review.

8hrs of solo prior to solo XC is not out of line. It depends on you, how often you fly, the weather, etc, etc.
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

I disagree on this one. I have never kept a student from soloing because I couldn't "log the time." By the way, I charge for supervised solo as well so that doesn't slow me down any. Once they are proficient at exiting and leaving the pattern, I turn them loose.

The reason I hold people back from soloing, and this is the ONLY reason, is that I don't want to get the phone call that my student has just become a smoking hole.

First time solos are incredibly stressful for CFIs.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

[ QUOTE ]
First time solos are incredibly stressful for CFIs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whew, thats the truth! I've soloed I think six, maybe seven people, and while I've learned to live with it, its still definitely stressful.
 

naunga

New Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

Hey all,

Thanks for the info. Looks like I'm where I need to be.

Maybe just going a little stir crazy being stuck on the ground in this weather.

It seems like more and more I'm startin' to feel it when I'm not flying frequently. I may have to do something crazy like try to work as a pilot.

Hmmm...

Anyhow, thanks again.

Naunga
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

[ QUOTE ]
That's why I like to tell people that it's very possible to finish up in close to the minimum time (40-45 hours). Tell someone that in the beginning and then plan everything around that. It can happen!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's possible ... I know someone who did it in 35.1 hours! Under part 141, of course. It's rare but entirely possible.
 

SUSPilot

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's why I like to tell people that it's very possible to finish up in close to the minimum time (40-45 hours). Tell someone that in the beginning and then plan everything around that. It can happen!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's possible ... I know someone who did it in 35.1 hours! Under part 141, of course. It's rare but entirely possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it is possible I finished my private pilot in 43 hours. At the flight school we have our plane on leaseback with however it would be impossible to finish the part 141 syllabus in 35 hours as the syllabus includes 42 hours. That being said, my friends who are instructing there now say they are pretty good about having people finish at right around syllabus times barring any major problems.
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

I finished my private in just over 41 hours, instrument with 15 hours of instrument instruction and ready for my commercial with about 10.5 hours of training in a complex aircraft (ended up showing up at the checkride with about 1.5 more, as I forgot my 8710 in my car back home...
).
 

PhotoPilot

New Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

I'm at a 141 school and managed to get my private in the low 35-point-somethings. I don't remember exactly what it was and my log book is the other room . . .

But, aside from proving that I'm lazy, this post has a purpose: Though I got my private ticket at the mins, I was most certainly lacking the real world experience needed to make me a safe pilot. In fact, if I hadn't been continuing on as a student (multi, comm, instrument, CFIs, etc.), I wouldn't have been comfortable leaving a formal instructional setting with such low hours. I'm now at 135 +/- hours, about to finish up instrument and commercial, and am just getting to the point where I feel like I am a safe, competent, well-prepared pilot who is ready to continue learning. Sure, I could have easily planned an XC and taken my wife with me at 35 or 45 hours, but at that point I think pilots are so close to their limits in terms of experience and piloting skill that something more is needed. I shudder everytime I meet a newly licensed pilot who plans on flying everywhere he or she can without pursuing continued education.

Soloing is great. It builds confidence, forces you to shift your focus from relying on an instructor to relying on yourself, and teaches you a lot about your limits and comfort zone. But every flight is a learning experience and dual time is worth more that what we pay for it, too. (IMHO)
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

Bah.

Should a 35-hour private pilot be careful? Yes. Should they be required to have some limit on their PPL or be required to take extra dual? No. They've met the requirements to earn the certificate.

No matter how much dual - or time - you throw at someone it still comes down to the personality and attitude of the pilot. If he or she is reckless and careless they're going to wind up dead or injured - whether it happens at 40.6 or 4,000.6 is just a matter of luck.

In a few hundred more hours you're going to wonder how you ever survived flying around with only 135 hours! I've noticed the mroe time I build the more I wonder how the hell I didn't do something stupid earlier. The point is as long as the core personality is safe the hours don't matter much because at whatever point that pilot is at he or she should be flying within the limits of their experience.

So a 35 hour pilot probably shouldn't set out at hour 36 to do a coast-to-coast VFR cross country. Does it mean it couldn't be done? No. But again limits of the experience would dictate it would probably be wiser to start out with small 100nm round-trip flights and build up.

At some point the pilot needs to be cut away from the dual environment because sooner or later they need to learn how to rely on themselves. IMHO.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
Re: Question for the CFI\'s here.

I agree 100%.

Its up to the CFI and the examiner to ensure that they are competent to excercise all privelages of a private pilot certificate before they are signed off/passed.

When it gets close to checkride time, I spend less time being the traditional "instructor" and more time playing the passenger, the examiner, and "Murphy's Law" working overtime to put them in situations that are "outside the box." Before I sign my name to that endorsement, I want to see their thought process "without me there", so-to-speak.
 
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