Purdue Purchases 16 SR20s

GUNIT

Well-Known Member
You've got to be kidding me. They are making kids pay an extra $10,000 in flight costs for worthless turbine time and a worthless rating.

Doing an hour in the King Air was good, because it makes what you learned in turbine systems class come together somewhat, and it didn't cost an arm and a leg. There is NO point to trying to log a bunch of turbine time in college because you wouldn't meet the mins for the turbine A/C spots with companies that operate them anyways.

I am not happy about what Purdue is doing one bit. They are scrapping the King Airs for Phenom jets, and are buying SR20s to replace the Warriors. They are also going to replace the full time CFIs with grad students. They're doing a bunch of other things that just scream "out of touch with reality" that it makes me furious (well, it would if i was actually in Purdue flight).

I could write a whole rant about what Purdue is doing to their flight program, but it's worthless to me so I'll keep it short.

The worst part of it all, is that 90% of these flight program kids have no idea how what Purdue is doing will hurt them tremendously. Seriously, joining an online aviation forum like APC or JetCareers so they could gain a little sense of reality would do these flight kids a world of good. College flight programs are becoming a joke.
I'm as critical of the administration at Purdue as anyone else, and there are certainly some very strongly backed arguments that what they are doing is ridiculous, but these aren't them.

The price increase to pay for a SIC (or PIC, hasn't really been made firm which one) type is outrageous, but getting turbine time is not a bad thing. Element made a nice post before about what exposure to turbine time shows. The problem is the E50P is a fairly worthless type; there are simply not enough Phenoms in the market now to warrant paying 10G for the type. In addition, the type is not the same as the P300 type. The King Air was a much better program and one that was much more applicable. The number of King Airs flying around is ENORMOUS. Stop by any field that isn't desolate and I would bet you can find a King Air operator. It is also much more feasible for a low time guy to get a gig out of school into a KA.

I could be crazy, but didn't Nolan also say that the Phenom IS going to be running TFO trips?

The second problem (and in my mind much more pressing) is the official rhetoric of the program. The changes they are making are to make the students confident that they will have a leg up on the rest and carry an implicit notion that they will get a job out of school. If I was signing kids up to pay up to ~40K per year with the understanding that there are really no job prospects unless you bust your behind networking outside of the school, I would be sick with myself. There is no honesty coming from above, only the Kool Aid. Oh Yea.

The fact of the matter is that there are severe disconnects between academia and the real world in EVERY field. Being critical of this is certainly a great thing, but expecting a change is to expect a complete reinvention of the whole college education system. This system has been in place for over a hundred years and is far too profitable to warrant any change.

The Cirri should certainly be interesting. I think they are a great move for more advanced students (248+), but may not be the best primary trainer. You do develop a greater "natural" sense of situational awareness in the warriors. With that said, there were still many kids who had close to 0 SA in the warriors when I left. There will be a lot of eyes which never leave the Perspective panel; as much as I hate to say it, this is recipe for a midair. They also move much faster. From the literature I have seen they get 150-155 in cruise versus 115-120 on a good day in the warrior. LAF tower is going to rip their hair out trying to separate out 14 SR20's moving at 150 knots coming in at the same time, I feel bad for those guys.
 

clayfenderstrat

Well-Known Member
Then stop complaining.
Well, let me take up the slack for Kestrel. I came to Purdue last fall hoping to fulfill my dreams of going through the flight program that I have been looking forward too since I first visited during my sophomore year of high school. I talked to advisers and faculty, and was completely psyched about the KA program and the Beechjet program. I was going to bust my butt to keep grades high so that I could sit right seat in that jet.

Still excited about being accepted into the program, I was up here for a week (actually about 4 days) and it all started to sink in. They were buying new airplanes, doing away with the Beechjet program, and were still telling us that we were going to have a job when we graduated. For as much money as I would have shelled out, I know that just about anyone can recognize that a Pro. Flight degree from Purdue does not land you a job in the industry.

After long contemplation about what I wanted to do, I switched to the AVMGMT program and am going to complete the required coursework for the CTI add-on. Just the other day, I saw a bunch of freshman walking around getting all starry eyed at the jet and the Cirrus that was setting out, and I just have to wonder what they are being told. Sure, it's a great program, but I was not given the whole story by ANYONE here at Purdue. I had to learn it from an internet forum (isn't that crazy?).

Maybe Kestrel and I have just seen the writing on the wall, and understand what's going on. Somebody should hand out a pamphlet to these kids and tell them what kind of money they will be making. Tell them how long it will take to make it to the majors. Tell them how much money they could save by driving an extra 30 seconds to Lafayette Aviation to get their ratings. Point is, everything is not as it seems. Purdue has a great program, they just need to use a little more common sense, and try to inform potential students of what is "really" going to happen when they graduate.
 

Kestrel452

New Member
Just the other day, I saw a bunch of freshman walking around getting all starry eyed at the jet and the Cirrus that was setting out, and I just have to wonder what they are being told. Sure, it's a great program, but I was not given the whole story by ANYONE here at Purdue. I had to learn it from an internet forum (isn't that crazy?).
:clap:

Why don't you take a close look at that post, Element94.
 

GUNIT

Well-Known Member
No offense, Kestrel, but you're coming off a little bitter here. Element94 is in the program; from his posts he is also clearly very bright and aware of what is happening in the industry. He reads the forums just like you do.

It is fine to be critical of the program, I am a HUGE critic of it, yet brazen ranting is not verifiable criticism. Your view as an outsider is quite important in many aspects, but you often frame it as if you have experience within the program which I believe you do not.

I would encourage you all to go to the administration with your concerns, they do listen. My last act as a student to Purdue University was to hand deliver a letter to President Cordova with criticisms (in fact quite harsh) of her and her handling of the program, fees, and the budget. I ended up speaking directly with Dean Depew.

Purdue is without a doubt out of touch with the industry, but not all the kids in the department are brainless fools.
 

element94

Well-Known Member
Still excited about being accepted into the program, I was up here for a week (actually about 4 days) and it all started to sink in. They were buying new airplanes, doing away with the Beechjet program, and were still telling us that we were going to have a job when we graduated.
Sounds like you came to the program for the wrong reasons then. I came here to learn the industry and gain professional experience...not to get 5 hours of turbine time and a 3.3% chance of being type rated in a Beechjet.

For as much money as I would have shelled out, I know that just about anyone can recognize that a Pro. Flight degree from Purdue does not land you a job in the industry.
Newsflash: A degree in anything does not land you a job anywhere. Despite what you may like to believe, your education does not entitle you to anything. It takes blood, sweat, and tears in any career within any industry... Aviation just requires slightly less mediocrity than almost everything else.

After long contemplation about what I wanted to do, I switched to the AVMGMT program and am going to complete the required coursework for the CTI add-on. Just the other day, I saw a bunch of freshman walking around getting all starry eyed at the jet and the Cirrus that was setting out, and I just have to wonder what they are being told. Sure, it's a great program, but I was not given the whole story by ANYONE here at Purdue. I had to learn it from an internet forum (isn't that crazy?).

Maybe Kestrel and I have just seen the writing on the wall, and understand what's going on. Somebody should hand out a pamphlet to these kids and tell them what kind of money they will be making. Tell them how long it will take to make it to the majors.
Listen, just because you didn't have the foresight or due diligence to investigate the career or industry before you came to the program doesn't mean others haven't. I'll agree, there are some members of my class who are absolutely braindead and ignorant when it comes to these things, but I'd say almost all of my friends in the program are very well informed about the realities of aviation.

Tell them how much money they could save by driving an extra 30 seconds to Lafayette Aviation to get their ratings.
The source of my education funding does not allow me to pick and choose where it gets spent. Unfortunately, I can only use it at non-profit, accredited institutions. Ironically, you actually spend less in flight fees to get Private/Instrument/Commercial then would otherwise be required at LafAv. (Yes, I've done out the math...that was part of my due diligence in choosing a career path and institution).

That being said, with the little supplemental income I do receive from my job, I still manage to fly about 3 hours/month at LafAv and Indy Aero.

Point is, everything is not as it seems. Purdue has a great program, they just need to use a little more common sense, and try to inform potential students of what is "really" going to happen when they graduate.
Agreed, actually...But, I'd blame Marketing & Communications over the AT department. All of the professors I've had are very aware and informed about what lies beyond graduation -- they've been there, and have no reservations in telling us about it. If you were in the program, you'd know that.

I don't have a problem with you guys being cynical, but one thing I can't stand is ridicule and judgement with little information or experience. 4 days in PFT doesn't count.

I'll leave you with this:

If you live your life with entitlement and expectation, you'll be constantly disappointed. If you live your life with no expectations, you'll always be happily surprised.
 

JRH91

New Member
Thank you element94, I am getting sick of everyone posting comments that are hyper-critical of the admin and the college. If you don't like it that is fine, you are allowed to leave and hate it. However, quit complaining to the rest of us about it and quit picking fights with everyone who disagrees. No one is telling you how to think and what to do, quit trying to tell everyone else what to do. I am going to Purdue next year and I completely understand what I am getting into, I know I will have problems getting a job when I graduate, I realize even if I do what kind of money I will be making. Also, I when I saw they were purchasing the phenom I didn't become a mindless zombie, actually the first thing I said was "I will never be able to use a type rating in that". I didn't choose Purdue because it had lots of shiney planes, I choose it because it is a flight school with a real college to go along. I choose to do the flight program because I love flying, and I want to enjoy college doing something I love. I could have got a more useful degree and gone into engineering, but I would have been miserable, and if I get furloughed ten years down the road an engineering degree might be just as useless as an aviation degree since I will have zero job experience.
I just wanted to have my own little slice of the ranting pie, you can continue your arguement now...
 
Top