Possible new SkyWest pay rates

WillNotFly4Food

Well-Known Member
Very very very interesting read on some goings on at Skywest. Notice the pay scale for a 159 seat aircraft. This is starting some heated discussions.

Skywest scale

*it is .doc format, need to 'save as'
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
So a FO is making the same no matter which plane? That sucks

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should the pay be any different for an FO. Being a gear and flap raiser and checklist challenger is pretty much the same for all planes.
 

aloft

New Member
What's criminal is that although the rest get a bump, the first-year FO rate hasn't changed; continuing to pay $19.02 per flight hour to someone with many tens of thousands of dollars invested in their training is patently ridiculous.

PFT is alive and well, it's just deducted from your pay right off the top.
 

Cheechako

Well-Known Member
I haven't compared the rest of the payscale, but as far as I can see, no one is getting a pay raise (mine is staying exactly the same). Our last payscale expires this summer and this is what our pilot group and management have come up with. The possibility of larger jets coming prompted the larger jet payscales. I can see maybe getting 70-seat RJs in the next 18 months (the length of this "contract") but certainly not anyting bigger. Management wants to have something in place so that if the opportunity arises they can jump on it.

It's generating a lot of controversy because they want to pay the same rate for 50, 70, and 90 seat aircraft. Typically the more the seats, the more the pay. Their arguement is "hey, at least you're not getting paycuts like the rest of the industry." I agree with that point, but don't like the idea of setting the precedence of one payscale for a 40 seat range. It's only 18 months and a lot can happen in that time, but I'm torn and don't know which way to think. . .
 

WillNotFly4Food

Well-Known Member
So keeping the current pay rates wasn't any form of concession by the pilots to managment for the possibility of flying larger, 159 seat aircraft?

I don't know what the first year Brasilia F/O's accrue as far as flight time goes but even if its 75-90 hours a month that's still only in the neighborhood of $17k-$20k per year. That's a step down from some CFI jobs!
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
as far as flight time goes but even if its 75-90 hours a month that's still only in the neighborhood of $17k-$20k per year. That's a step down from some CFI jobs!

[/ QUOTE ]
Playing Devil's advocate here:

Right or wrong - the moral of that story is "Beggars cannot be choosers". I would presume that most regionals look at that complaint as "you either want to fly for us or you don't."

Or better yet - "take it or leave it".

After all - it's the airline that is paying for the F/O's training.

Remember - regionals USED to make you pay OUT OF POCKET for your training. They are investing a CRAPLOAD of money in your training as a F/O.

Are they supposed to do that for free? Would you - as the owner of a business where you have low-time individuals flying YOUR equipment - after spending tens of thousands of dollars per person to get them trained on that equipment - pay them top dollar?

I'd wager to say - no.

You want to see if they'll stick around and if they can do the job.

If you notice, that $19+K per hour is ONLY for the first year.... which is generally the probation period at ANY airline.

After that, it goes up.

Aloft is right - PFT is alive and well - it just is deducted from your first-year salary prior to you even seeing it.

Not saying it's right or that it's wrong - but, it's legal and there are THOUSANDS of pilots out there who will GLADLY jump on board.

If you (generic "you")are not one of them, then don't apply there.

Good luck!

R2F
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
You just have to be a wee bit "grain of salty" with information like this.

It may be a classic "Larry Risely"-style negotiating tactic where the company negotiator will walk in and present the pilots with a bunch of emails and forum postings that say, "Not too bad" or "Woo hoo! I'd do that" and then show a stack of resumes from pilots willing to fly for those rates or even less.

We're our own worst enemy most of the time.
 

aloft

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
After all - it's the airline that is paying for the F/O's training.

Remember - regionals USED to make you pay OUT OF POCKET for your training. They are investing a CRAPLOAD of money in your training as a F/O.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on...you really think things have changed? Why the huge difference in Jet FO pay between 1st and 2nd year? Because you're PAYING FOR YOUR TRAINING, whether it's cash upfront or off the top of your paycheck before you ever see it. (I know somebody, somewhere is saying "at least this way, you're not paying taxes on that training cost!", but that's not the point). The company sure isn't paying for it. If that's not the case, then why isn't the difference between 1st and 2nd year more like the difference between 2nd and 3rd year?
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Doug you mentioned Larry Risley. Before you mentioned Mesa. Are you one of us?

Please don't tell me you're West Air! That would ruin it LOL

(Edit)
I just saw a post that said you flew a BE1900 around Detroit. Let me guess ... Liberty? Crown?
(/Edit)
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Doug you mentioned Larry Risley. Before you mentioned Mesa. Are you one of us?

[/ QUOTE ]

I got hired at Skyway right after Midwest Express killed the Mesa contract and started up a wholly owned subsidiary of Skyway. Lots of stories (and some jail time for some mechs!)

[ QUOTE ]
Please don't tell me you're West Air! That would ruin it LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, but I rode "Sundance" to Visalia and Fresno a lot to see my parents!


[ QUOTE ]

I just saw a post that said you flew a BE1900 around Detroit. Let me guess ... Liberty? Crown?


[/ QUOTE ]

Just Skyway. Back in the day we had a shuttle contract for GM between Rockford, IL and Detroit, MI. It only lasted for about three years because GM purchased a sweet Saab 2000 with flight attendants.

Hard to compete with a fresh Saab 2000 with flight attendants when all we had to offer them, at the time, was a Beech 1900, no bathroom... but we gave you a free newspaper though!
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
and GM is the only Saab 2000 operator in the Western Hemisphere.

ok Skyway. Yeah.

By the way Midwest Express re-hired Air Midwest (a Mesa carrier) as the ME Conecition out of MCI. We call them "Mini-ME"
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Come on...you really think things have changed? Why the huge difference in Jet FO pay between 1st and 2nd year? Because you're PAYING FOR YOUR TRAINING, whether it's cash upfront or off the top of your paycheck before you ever see it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope - not what I meant. I was heading in the same direction you were - hence the comment "Aloft was right..." further on down the thread.
 

SkyWestJake

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Come on...you really think things have changed? Why the huge difference in Jet FO pay between 1st and 2nd year? Because you're PAYING FOR YOUR TRAINING, whether it's cash upfront or off the top of your paycheck before you ever see it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, I respectfully disagree. Though I do suffer from the low wage, I knew EXACTLY what I was getting into. I gave up a much higher paying charter job so that I could realize my dreams of the airlines. I may be alone in my thought process, but I think that the reason for the low wage the first year, followed by such a sizeable jump the second is timing. Notice that the FIRST (read probation) year is the low paying one.

For many, the first year at a regional airline is their first experience in a high stress, high performance, demanding crew and passenger environment. The airlines are an entirely different animal than instructing, banner towing, traffic watch, sightseeing, etc. The airline does indeed incur a substantial cost/investment to train each pilot. I am ok with this policy because I didn't pay for my training (unless you count the 17,000 to get my ratings) and as stated earlier, I knew the scenario. I think PFT is an ugly word and I don't like being tagged with that label. It is just this humble pilots opinion that the airline wants to see that you can succeed in the challenging environment before they pay a reasonable wage. I know that I have had several students that were superstars in the training world, disasters in the real world...

just my .02
Jake
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Jake, perhaps you should take note of those poll results.

I believe the number of pilots currently at airlines enjoying flying their "dream job" is still at zero? nudge nudge wink wink say no more?
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
I thought it was "Red .... no Blue! AHHHHHH!!!!"

so ....

"What ... is the airspeed velocity of unladen swallow?"

"But the European Swallows are non-migratory!"

"He could grip it by the husk!"

".... and there was much rejoicing ..."

"Right ... call it a draw"
 

davetheflyer

New Member
Chris, I had heard that you guys were non-union. Do you get any say at all in the new pay rates and work rules?

Also is it true that Skywest now has a contract with American Eagle as well as Delta Connection and UAX?
 
Top