please don't turn this into a PFT discussion

shooter13

New Member
please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

I got the materials from Mesa today and was pretty impressed. I don't want to start a big debate here I just want to know if a place like Mesa is considered pay for training? It didn't seem like it to me. They don't guarantee a job just an interview. I'd just like to know what I may be getting myself into. Thanks everyone!!!
 

ncm4y

New Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

I looked at the program too. Very well run. I would not consider it PFT, you are paying the cost to get all you ratings. No more, no less. Yes an interview, but it does not buy you a job.
 

shooter13

New Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

I agree ncm. I would like to go and tour but they are quite a ways from where I live currently. I am having so hard a time figuring out what I think is the right way for me to get this done. Thanks for the reply.
 

Astin

New Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

Not PFT. You are not paying for hours in the right seat (ie 250 hours, etc...), that would otherwise be filled by a qualified pilot, then moving on after your hours are done. You are paying for the opportunity to receive all of your ratings, which are at the same cost of other schools. If you meet certain qualifications, they will sign you off to interview w/ Mesa, where you will receive the full interview.
For instance, they have a PACE program. I was told there is a 50% washout rate among the students. They definitely don't take your cash and give you a job. It seems you have to earn it.
 

SigAV8R

New Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

2 things to keep in mind:

1 - the "interview" can just be a talk after the program where they say go earn XXXX hours and come back and we'll hire you after you get back.

2 - Sure they have a high washout rate. Anytime you have people coming in out of high school w/o a college degree or real world experience, there's going to be the washout rate b/c they don't fully understand the time you have to put in to get to an airline job. If it was a school like Flightsafety or Comair where people aren't looking for that degree + flight training, the washout rate would be lower.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

50% washout rate?

Yow!

I don't think the USAF has a washout rate that high.
 

Astin

New Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

Yea Doug, it's high. I flew down there around a month ago to check out the facilities. I spoke w/ one of the students who gives tours. The 50% washout is only in the PACE (accelerated) program. He told me it was primarily due to a lack of instrument skills in the students coming in w/ 300+ hours. They put you in the baron, and you are expected to be checked out w/in 10 or so hours (that is all you pay for). If you can't do the single-engine instrument approaches and other maneuvers in a timely manner, I think they ask you to hit the highway. I was actually impressed w/ the figure. They don't let any schmo w/ 300 hours and all of their ratings breeze through the program and go to an interview.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

I see, but that was a big red flag to me. It either speaks volumes about the training, or says that they should be more selective in who they enroll in PACE.
 

Astin

New Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

I agree. Part of the interview includes a sim check ride, but I don't think it includes any instrument flying.
The PACE program is fairly new though. He said they are goiing to create a ground school refresher to get students back in the saddle w/ instrument flying, because of the high wash-out rate to date.
 

Windchill

Well-Known Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

I'm a little confused, just started looking at MESA. When a student graduates, interviews for a F/O position, are they then paid for flying right seat? And does this interview come with the minimal 300 hours, or after all the requirements for ATP and any other related ratings?
 

giants_fan

New Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

No you get paid from day one. You have to supply your own housing until you pass your system test, but you get paid right away the minimum guarantee.
 

Windchill

Well-Known Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

I'm sure it doesn't amount to much, but what does one get paid when flying for Mesa with 300 hours?

Let me see if I understand this right, is it kinda like Delta Connection Academy in that you can get paid while you build hours, but instead of instructing, you are getting paid to fly regional as you build your hours?
 

MissedApproach

Well-Known Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure it doesn't amount to much, but what does one get paid when flying for Mesa with 300 hours?

[/ QUOTE ] Well, here's Mesa's contract. Your pay has nothing to do with how many hours you have, once you're hired you're hired.
Mesa has a 70 hr/month min but has 13 periods. This comes to a min of 910 hours/yr as opposed to the 900 that most airlines have (75 hr min, 12 bid periods).
[ QUOTE ]
Let me see if I understand this right, is it kinda like Delta Connection Academy in that you can get paid while you build hours, but instead of instructing, you are getting paid to fly regional as you build your hours?

[/ QUOTE ] You complete the program, get the degree, and eventually (who knows when that could be) they'll call you for an interview. If you are hired your situation is no different than someone hired off the street.
With the Farmington and Midland programs you could theoretically be hired with 300 hrs. Here at ASU, some people have 1000+ by the time they graduate. This is due to the fact that many students have their CFII by the end of their sophmore year. At Midland and Farmington, the CFI/II isn't even part of the sylabus.
 

flyallday

Well-Known Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

[ QUOTE ]
Let me see if I understand this right, is it kinda like Delta Connection Academy in that you can get paid while you build hours, but instead of instructing, you are getting paid to fly regional as you build your hours?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can also go to DCA and pay over 80K to fly some beat up 152 and 172P around and not even get a degree and then have a 60% chance of being hired as a CFI and then a 90% chance of getting on with the airline. Take the chance of getting screwed over by DCA as there are a few stories of that.

Or you can go to MAPD for half the price, get a 2 year degree fly around in A36 Bonanzas and BE58 barons. Cost you around 100 for the 2 nights that your going to be in New Mexico for the interview, if you get accepted you have a 98% chance of getting hired. I also haven't heard 1 bad story about MAPD
 

giants_fan

New Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

I was lucky I guess, because I got my interview right away and was hired with 320 hrs.

It was three years until I made my last payment on my training loans.
 

giants_fan

New Member
Re: please don\'t turn this into a PFT discussion

<sigh> Ok I give up. Why do you want people to think you are me? or vice versa i mean
 
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