Piper Arrow

E_Dawg

Moderator
OK so I've decided to integrate my Comm and CFI together and get em both at 250...

I have my Arrow checkout tomorrow... never flown a retract so I'm really looking forward to it; just wondering if anyone can give me any tips, it's a 1973 model... I've never flown a Piper, retract, or complex so it's all new stuff!


And Happy Fourth!!!
 

av8sean

New Member
Flying qualities are very easy, you have to switch the tanks since there isn't any crossfeed, but other then that, it's a very easy bird. Expect cruise around 140kt..
 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
The one thing that I do different in Arrow's as opposed to other Piper's is that I don't just cut the power on my short final and aim for the numbers. That's the procedure my instructor taught me for the 172 and the Warrior's, but it won't work in an Arrow. If you do that, you will drop like a rock...maybe even faster. That thing has ZERO glide with no power and the way I make up for that is to fly a flatter approach (more like making an ILS).

Other than that it's a fun bird. You'll get used to the whole complex thing really quickly, it's a really nice feature and easy to use. Have fun with it!

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
I think the '73 is still a -200 model with the Hershey Bar wing right? I've got a bunch of time in a '71 -200, an older -180, and then some more in the -201's at FSI.

Anyways, they're nice planes (as long as the auto gear extension is removed/disabled- that thing is a pain in the ass). They tend to sink like a rock, so when he pulls your power in the practice area, look down. And when he does it in the pattern, stay in close to the runway. If its abeam the end of the runway, go straight for the numbers. Keep some power in on landing too. They don't float like a 172. On takeoff, the older ones (-180's, and I think the -200's too but maybe not as much) have an over-rotation tendency (from what I understand, caused by the relatively small elevator but I don't remember the aerodynamics of it, so dont ask
), which causes it to continue pitching up after rotation. You may notice that after you rotate, you'll need more additional forward pressure right away to keep the nose from continuing to pitch up. Its not super-pronounced, most people don't even notice it until you say something. I just mentioned it so you can watch for it.

They're really nice flying airplanes though, and they don't have any real bad quirks. I spent many hours flying that -200 around the southeast through bumpy and rainy clouds in the middle of the night (yeah, I know, not the smartest thing to do for fun probably- but I was usually solo). I had block time in it, and flew it almost exclusively at night. I miss flying the Arrow.


Have fun!
 

I_Money

Moderator
Buddy that is awesome!! I have flown quite a few planes, and the one piece of advice is to fly the plane - not fly it like a Cessna. Complex aircraft are really no different just some other things you have to do change throttle settings - to be honest it is prety much a non-event it just keeps you busy especially when you have to level off - climb - level off etc.

I am sure you will have no problems, and I look forward to being taken for a ride in this new bird (do not worry we will get you on a polo pony in return!).
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
(do not worry we will get you on a polo pony in return!).


[/ QUOTE ]

Well SkyGuyEd, aren't you the lucky one?
 

BlueStreak

New Member
You'll enjoy the Arrow. I've got about 100 hrs in a 1974 model with a three-blade prop. I absolutely love it, just listen to all the advice listed above and you'll be fine. You will get used to the proper power settings needed after a few hours and will get a good feel for the landings. My old instructor was pretty convinced that it was difficult to "grease" an Arrow on landing, but trust me it does happen after you get some practice. Fun airplane. Enjoy!
 

Tim

New Member
It drops like a rock when you pull power but otherwise fine. Remember 3 green lights is good... Anything less rethink landing
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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It drops like a rock when you pull power but otherwise fine. Remember 3 green lights is good... Anything less rethink landing

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Were the older Arrows part of the Piper family that had an "auto extend" feature for the gear if the plane sensed certain throttle setings/flap configs?
 

SUSPilot

Well-Known Member
My family has a '74 Arrow-200. It is a really easy plane to fly and did not take much getting used to when I made the transition from flying mainly 172's. It does like to have a little power on landing because it will drop like a rock with the power at idle, but as you start flying heavier complex or high performance airplanes you will notice that you do not want to land with the power cut because they will sink fast. After you are used to everything happening faster flying a complex airplane such as an arrow or a high performance airplane is no big deal at all.
 

WillNotFly4Food

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Were the older Arrows part of the Piper family that had an "auto extend" feature for the gear if the plane sensed certain throttle setings/flap configs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, we have a couple arrows like that.

It's a combination of power and airspeed. If the airspeed is below 95 kias and the power is retarded (dur!
) the gear will drop. The system can be disengaged for practicing slow flight, etc.

Ed, I think about, and say, "three in the green, one in the mirror" about 5 times from the point I lower the gear to landing. I've made it part of my before landing check in every plane I fly, even ones with fixed gear. Just got to make sure you're consciously thinking about it when you say it otherwise it will just become something you recite and don't do.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
Well I just got back from the flight. First off thanks for all the great info!!

That plane is freakin awesome!! It handles very easily; I was suprised at how much more runway it took both to take off and land. You're really moving much faster when you lift off than you are in the Cessnas.

The prop control was great.... I get charged 1.2 x tach so it looks like I'll be flying more around 2100RPM and 23" or so MP as per the POH
.

We had some nice Xwinds (which is pretty common at LGB). My first landing was pretty good, 40 degrees of flaps.

My second one I did it at 25 degrees and pulled off a hell of a greaser!!!!

The flap handle is really cool too; I like where the trim wheel is too. The overall package feels much beefier and more powerful... the alierons and rudder were kind of touchy but the elevator felt solid; the engine sounds much more throaty than the lawnmowerish Cessna engines
.

Oh and I found out that I much prefer low wings over high wings! Low wings make it sooooo much easier to spot traffic, and you can easily check the fuel cap to make sure it's on inflight.
 

Hootie

Old Skool
Great bird. I did exactly what you are doing and got my comm and cfi at 250 hours and 254. Hopefully your auto/extend stuff is disengaged, because that can be a real pain. The FBO I work at just sold their 76, too bad. Two best pieces of advice I can give you since you haven't flown much retract are.
1. If you have only two green push the dead third light into the panel. Takes care of the "broken landing gear".
2. Those examiners know their arrows so you need to be dead on the book.

Also for about three pennies you can buy a post-it note, place it over a certain placard and use it for a nice arrow mod. After the mod. the arrow will make tight spins and clean aileron rolls.
 

viper548

Well-Known Member
The flight school I work at has a -180 arrow with the auto extend. During manuvers we stick a piece of metal in it to hold it in override up. That prevents the gear from auto extending. I just flew it yesterday, at 25"/2500 at 5000' I had a 142Kt. groundspeed, both directions. It's a nice plane, I just hope they charge you less than the $120/hr. I have to pay.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
The good news is the Arrow I'm flying does not have the auto gear extend (I really don't see why it's so bad in the first place... Heaven forbid if I ever forget I'd love to have the plane remember...); the bad news is that the copilot's side does not have brakes (the were optional in 1973, and this one doesn't have 'em). So pretty much I'll have to do the Comm from the left and the CFI from the right.

I'm not too concerned as I already feel pretty good in that Arrow after 3.5hrs of flying it so far (once yesterday, once today). And I still think I can get em both right at 250 if I study hard and fly well.

Also if anyone is interested... we (my instructor and I) operate the engine a bit differently than the 'norm'. We lean it waaaaay out during ground ops (to the point where we can't get more than 1500rpm if we tried). In flight the mix is always back.... only full in during takeoff and landings and pattern ops.

Also for climb we keep the throttle full in and just inch back on the prop to around 2500RPM. There is very good information to support this; very good reading if you have the chance... www.avweb.com go to columns and read John Deakin Pelican's Perch.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]


Also for climb we keep the throttle full in and just inch back on the prop to around 2500RPM. There is very good information to support this; very good reading if you have the chance

[/ QUOTE ]

Never flew the Arrow. Flew the Lance for cargo ops and liked the bird alot.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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Did you fly for AMF?



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Nah. The company was out of Chandler-Stellar Airpark in AZ. Name was Air CSI (Courier Services INC), which changed to US Delivery (US Slavery), then to Corporate Express by the time I left. We had 3 PA-32R-300 Lances, 4 PA-32-300 Cherokee 6s, 1 C-TU-206, 2 Cessna 207s, 1 Turbo 207, and 2 PA-31 Chieftains. Flew cargo/medicine/bank bags/etc all over AZ and NM.

Did that before leaving for Skywest/Scenic.
 
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