Pilot Bid Packages

jbpilot

Well-Known Member
I was just looking over Doug's bid package example in the Major Airline Schedules section. How is the total pay for the trip determined? I see that total pay hours are 20.06, but total flight time is 19.57. Are the pay hours pre-determined, or do they fluctuate based on the actual time the trip ends up taking (possible delays, etc)?
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Well, the short story is that we have a minimum amount of hours that we've got to be paid during any given day called "variable minimum".

I think, and any other Delta guy feel free to correct me, that we've got a "minimum" of four hours of pay per day on the trip. Basically, that's there so we don't fly 1 hour from Billings to Salt Lake City. Sit for 7 hours in uniform at the airport, and then fly Salt Lake City to Denver.

It's "supposed" to help from being on duty for 14 hours in a day and only winding up with 2 hours of pay.

Without that, you run the risk of having (theoretically) a four day, ten hour trip where you'd have to work 25 days to make a honest month's work.

Basically, if the trip doesn't reach the days "VM", we'll have "credit time" to bring us up to it.
 

vipermcg

New Member
Doug- are you payed by how long the aircraft stays in the air, or how long it is scheduled to stay in the air?
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Doug- are you payed by how long the aircraft stays in the air, or how long it is scheduled to stay in the air?

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a scary way to put it.

Care to rephrase?
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
You're paid 'block or better'. Basically, I start getting paid as soon as the door is closed and the anticollision beacon is on. I stop getting paid after the door is opened and the anticollision beacon is off.

I'm paid the higher number of either block time or actual flight time.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Doug,

Didn't Mesa have some pay deal ,back when, where the pilots wouldn't get paid if the plane didn't actually touch down at it's destination (as in a WX divert).

Seem to remember something like that.....or I could be mistaken.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Slow flight anyone?


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Too bad they track all of the telemetry from the aircraft!
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
Hehe...not the ones I fly! My students get reaaaaaally good at slow flight! (just kidding...well, they do get good at it, but...you know what I mean).
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Doug,

Didn't Mesa have some pay deal ,back when, where the pilots wouldn't get paid if the plane didn't actually touch down at it's destination (as in a WX divert).

Seem to remember something like that.....or I could be mistaken.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might be!

I know that Air Tran (then Valujet) didn't pay for maintenance or weather cancellations.

So it's like (a) fly the plane and pay the mortgage or (b)be willing to muster disdain of your copilot and flight attendants when you cancelled the flight because of severe weather.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Hehe...not the ones I fly! My students get reaaaaaally good at slow flight! (just kidding...well, they do get good at it, but...you know what I mean).


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah! I forgot those days!

"Umm, we're going to go out and do basic attitude instrument 'Pattern C's' all day! hope ya brought a lunch!"
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doug,

Didn't Mesa have some pay deal ,back when, where the pilots wouldn't get paid if the plane didn't actually touch down at it's destination (as in a WX divert).

Seem to remember something like that.....or I could be mistaken.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might be!

I know that Air Tran (then Valujet) didn't pay for maintenance or weather cancellations.

So it's like (a) fly the plane and pay the mortgage or (b)be willing to muster disdain of your copilot and flight attendants when you cancelled the flight because of severe weather.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just remember being at FLG, once a long time back, and watching a Mesa plane trying to get in when the WX was pretty crappy. Couple of multiple approaches then a divert.

Remember talking with one of us at Riddle about that.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Doug,
If you get paid as soon as the airplane door closes, what if there's a 2 hour delay on the tarmac due to weather, traffic, etc. You don't get a full flights pay if you're on the ground, right?
 

stuckingfk

Well-Known Member
The way I understand it, once the door is closed (jetway away from door), the pilots are getting paid. I have a friend who used to work for CoEx and he loved the 45 minute taxi at La Guardia or when the plane had to sit in line to be deiced. He said he got paid for all of that.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Are you sure?
I think the pay is a certain percentage of your actual flying hourly rate when you're on the ground.

For example, delays on the ground at O'Hare at many times exceed 1 hour... I'm sure the airline doesn't pay the normal hourly rate to the pilot. Isn't it lower, like 50% of normal flight pay/hour ???

Doug?
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
Pilot pay is very complicated. There is straight pay where you get paid your hourly rate for block to block time. There is trip and duty rigs where you get paid so many hours per trip or hours on duty. There is monthly guarantee where you are paid a certain amount no matter how much you fly, how long your trips are, or how long you are on duty. They figure your pay using all the different methods and then you get which ever method is worth the most pay.

I usually get paid 75 hours a month at my hourly rate. The trip I'm flying now only generates about 10 hours a month of block to block time. (has to be the lowest block time trip in history...Seattle to Vancouver, BC turns) Once in a while, my trip rig will push my monthly pay to just above my 75 hour guarantee and I'll get paid 77 hours that month. I never get paid by hard time, that's block to block time. Your typical hard working airline pilot is getting paid 80 hours a month because he actually flew 80 hours a month block to block...way too hard for my lazy butt.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Pilots, in most cases, are only paid from engine start to engine shutdown.

All of the time between terminals, doing checklists, changing aircraft between terminals, sitting in hotels, waiting for late passengers, ground delays, etc are done for the discount price of "free!"

So when you see a pilot earning $100/hr, it's not $100/hr for an 8-hour workday for 40 hours per week.
 

Jason

Well-Known Member
MikeD - I can't say for sure if that's one of them but Mesa has alot of funky pay rules. I used to jump seat with them alot from CVG to PHL. I **believe** they only get scheduled block and don't get payed for cancellations. I was up front with a CRJ crew one night and they had been dealing with weather all day resulting in block+ every leg - they were pushing things as far as they could(sometimes past my comfort level) triing to block in before a certain time so they'd be legal for their next leg or they wouldn't get payed for it.


Did someone say slowflight?? Anyone ever hear of the 'Save a Pratt power setting'?? Of course that was only when the negiotiating committee ran into problems


Jason
 

Cheechako

Well-Known Member
Strange work rules aside, Skywest pays the greater of historical block time (published in the bid packet) or actual flown. So if we sit an extra 45 minutes on the taxiway waiting to take off or for our gate to open up we get straight pay for anything over the published credit for that segment. We have kind of a messed up system where we have to submit a break-down of all excess time. That's one of the FO's most important jobs- keep up with all the extra minutes and fax the form to payroll.

We get paid for cancellations- no matter what the cause.
 
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