PIC time before Complex sign off...

tom_rob

New Member
Quick question before I go to the FARS to double check. If your giving someone training for a complex aircraft; they can't log that time as PIC, they have to wait until the next flight when they have the signoff. Is that correct?
Thanks for the help out there.
Tom
 

Wolverine

New Member
That's another gray area, thanks to the FAA. My understanding is that pilots cannot log PIC in a complex until after they receive the complex endorsement.

61.51(e) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log PIC time only for that time during which that person is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated.

The FAA defines rating as: A statement that, as part of a certificate, sets forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations. The complex endorsement could be considered a statement of privilege, and therefore is necessary to be rated in and log PIC time in a complex aircraft.

That's my interpretation. Call your local FSDO and ask what their interpretation is.
 

mikek123

Well-Known Member
I logged the time before I got the complex endorement because I was properly rated in the plane. Although I was not acting as PIC I was the sole manipulator of the control of a single-engine land airplane. Now when I did my multi I didn't log the time because I wasn't rated in that airplane. Remember the high performance/complex/high altitude are just endorsements and not ratings.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The FAA defines rating as: A statement that, as part of a certificate, sets forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations. The complex endorsement could be considered a statement of privilege, and therefore is necessary to be rated in and log PIC time in a complex aircraft.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a rating. This is an endorsement. Two completely different things. By "rated" they mean the appropriate class rating. You can log PIC in a complex aircraft that you're receiving training in if you're rated in CATEGORY and CLASS. You cannot act as PIC because you do not hold the endorsement. The instructor, would be acting as PIC.
 

mrivc211

Well-Known Member
When I started my complex training, I was being logged Dual Given and not PIC. Once I was competent in flying that airplane I was given PIC time. Then once I took my Com checkride I was checked out to fly that A/C.
For insurance purposes, we have to have 125TT and 15 M & M to fly that A/C.
Some instructor from a 141 school called us the other day and asked if a 50 hour private can get checked out in our 172RG.
No thanks, we prefer to have our RG for many years to come!

ahahha, just kidding to you students out there. I was once in your seat too, not too long ago. The RG is fun though, ours cruises at around 135-140. Fun FUn FUN!
 

mastermags

Well-Known Member *giggity*
[ QUOTE ]


Thats a rating. This is an endorsement. Two completely different things. By "rated" they mean the appropriate class rating. You can log PIC in a complex aircraft that you're receiving training in if you're rated in CATEGORY and CLASS. You cannot act as PIC because you do not hold the endorsement. The instructor, would be acting as PIC.


[/ QUOTE ]

There can legally be only one PIC at a time in a plane right? If you are not acting as PIC, how can you log PIC time?
 

mikek123

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
There can legally be only one PIC at a time in a plane right? If you are not acting as PIC, how can you log PIC time?

[/ QUOTE ]

The instructor is acting as PIC since he is the only one qualified to until you get the endorsement. You however being appropriately rated in that category and class of aircraft can log PIC time for the time that you are the sole manipulator of the flight controls.
 
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