PIA A320 crash in Karachi

ChasenSFO

hen teaser
From what I gather from various sources, it appears the initial go-around was due to a gear indication(never got close enough for the engines to scrape), but something happened during that go-around that resulted in both engines flaming out, the RAT deploying, and the crew in the middle of a packed poor downtown with nowhere to go. Terrifying, and sadly the emergency ministry is estimating 2-3 days just to get to all the ground victims trapped in the rubble where the A320 went down. Numbers vary, but it would appear as many as 2 pax have survived the crash at this point. Damn, what a horrific situation. Pakistan has only had 2 major crashes prior to this in the last decade, despite being impoverished and full of dangerous terrain with frequent inclement weather. I'm sure there will be a period of national mourning after something like this.

I imagine with that, not much else will be known until there is an initial report obviously. I'm very curious to find out if there was any kind of known issue in that aircraft that could have lead to an inadvertent overheat. Not every day both engines on an A320 just flame out on a go-around.

While interesting, it is a terrible though that there are photos of the aircraft in it's fatal glide as well as the crash video already surfaced, must be gut wrenching for the families of the victims. RIP. :(
 

Skåning

Well-Known Member
From what I gather from various sources, it appears the initial go-around was due to a gear indication(never got close enough for the engines to scrape), but something happened during that go-around that resulted in both engines flaming out, the RAT deploying, and the crew in the middle of a packed poor downtown with nowhere to go. Terrifying, and sadly the emergency ministry is estimating 2-3 days just to get to all the ground victims trapped in the rubble where the A320 went down. Numbers vary, but it would appear as many as 2 pax have survived the crash at this point. Damn, what a horrific situation. Pakistan has only had 2 major crashes prior to this in the last decade, despite being impoverished and full of dangerous terrain with frequent inclement weather. I'm sure there will be a period of national mourning after something like this.

I imagine with that, not much else will be known until there is an initial report obviously. I'm very curious to find out if there was any kind of known issue in that aircraft that could have lead to an inadvertent overheat. Not every day both engines on an A320 just flame out on a go-around.

While interesting, it is a terrible though that there are photos of the aircraft in it's fatal glide as well as the crash video already surfaced, must be gut wrenching for the families of the victims. RIP. :(
What’s amazing too, is much like the Tehran shoot down, we have a bunch of videos from different angles and so soon after the incidents.

There aren’t any vents or outflow points on both engines that would lead to symmetrical dark spots like in the gear up photo (that I know of). So I think that’s why scrapes or damage is assumed.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Pakistan has only had 2 major crashes prior to this in the last decade, despite being impoverished and full of dangerous terrain with frequent inclement weather.
2010-2020 fatal hull loses:

2010 - Airblue A321 flew into mountain
2012 - Bhoja 737 microburst with improper recovery
2016 - PIA ATR no official report, engine failure, stall warbler heard in background of last ATC transmission.
2020 - PIA A320

Between PIA, Bhoja (defunct) and airBlue, you’re talking a net fleet total of 50 planes. Crashing 4 in 10 yrs means They crashed 8% of their entire fleet in one decade.

Pakistan has a HORRIBLE crash record and safety record. After EVERY single one of those crashes, NOTHING changed. The ATR crash was almost 4 yrs ago and they don’t even have a crash report yet!
 

Boris Badenov

Someone should definitely do *something*, Captain!
Short of getting Sullied, or, I dunno, bad fuel, I'm hard-pressed to think of a rational scenario in which two engines just happen to fail at roughly the same time, particularly after some other nebulous problems and a go-around.

I think someone(s) is/are going wind up wearing a big brown helmet on this one. I have vague recollections of a PIA ATR crash not that long ago where the ATC tapes were, uhm, eyebrow-raising to say the least.
 

ChasenSFO

hen teaser
2010-2020 fatal hull loses:

2010 - Airblue A321 flew into mountain
2012 - Bhoja 737 microburst with improper recovery
2016 - PIA ATR no official report, engine failure, stall warbler heard in background of last ATC transmission.
2020 - PIA A320

Between PIA, Bhoja (defunct) and airBlue, you’re talking a net fleet total of 50 planes. Crashing 4 in 10 yrs means They crashed 8% of their entire fleet in one decade.

Pakistan has a HORRIBLE crash record and safety record. After EVERY single one of those crashes, NOTHING changed. The ATR crash was almost 4 yrs ago and they don’t even have a crash report yet!
I forgot about Bhoja Air actually, so you're right it was 3. That accident was especially crazy since it was the re-start of the airline after going out of business years before having flown YAK-42s around Pakistan. But anyway, I wouldn't say it's horrible relative to nations with a similarly sized aviation industry and economic disparity. Horrible by our modern standards, but not for places like India, Indonesia, ect. The point is, 4th accident in 10 years, planes don't crash "all the time" there so it is a big deal in the country I'm sure. Given the training, technology, ATC, terrain, ect, it could be a lot worse. Just being realistic here as someone who spends a lot of time reading about accidents. 50 active commercial planes is actually a lot for a country with an economy like Pakistan, honestly.

What’s amazing too, is much like the Tehran shoot down, we have a bunch of videos from different angles and so soon after the incidents.

There aren’t any vents or outflow points on both engines that would lead to symmetrical dark spots like in the gear up photo (that I know of). So I think that’s why scrapes or damage is assumed.
Well anything is possible, but the radar tracks and information thus far don't seem to show any contact with the ground happened prior to impact which is why I stated it does not appear to have been from scraping the runway. Who knows with the modern media spewing out "facts". Either way, just absolutely surreal to see a photo of that stricken Airbus gliding on it's way down to the city. :(
 
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Inverted

The journey is the meat in the goal sandwich
What’s amazing too, is much like the Tehran shoot down, we have a bunch of videos from different angles and so soon after the incidents.

There aren’t any vents or outflow points on both engines that would lead to symmetrical dark spots like in the gear up photo (that I know of). So I think that’s why scrapes or damage is assumed.
There is damage ahead of the gang drain and both masts appear to be gone. It is entirely possible (and my guess at this point which means nothing) that they could have had a gear issue of some sort, attempted a landing with the gear up, scraped the nacelles, executed a go-around and all hell started breaking loose. It explains the RAT being deployed and both engines failing.
 
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Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
There is damage ahead of the gain drain and both masts appear to be gone. It is entirely possible (and my guess at this point which means nothing) that they could have had a gear issue of some sort, attempted a landing with the gear up, scraped the nacelles, executed a go-around and all hell started breaking loose. It explains the RAT being deployed and both engines failing.
That sounds like the most plausible thing I can think of for things to go that far south that quickly.
 

///AMG

Well-Known Member
There is damage ahead of the gang drain and both masts appear to be gone. It is entirely possible (and my guess at this point which means nothing) that they could have had a gear issue of some sort, attempted a landing with the gear up, scraped the nacelles, executed a go-around and all hell started breaking loose. It explains the RAT being deployed and both engines failing.
Yeah. That is kind of a "landing" that you don't get to try again (if true). As in you don't scrape the belly of an airplane and try to haul it back up.

I have no experience with their pilots, but Karachi/Pak ATC is utterly incompetent. If they were manning US consoles, we would have a midair every single day here.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
Yeah. That is kind of a "landing" that you don't get to try again (if true). As in you don't scrape the belly of an airplane and try to haul it back up.

I have no experience with their pilots, but Karachi/Pak ATC is utterly incompetent. If they were manning US consoles, we would have a midair every single day here.
Wasn’t it Beagle that pulled it off successfully?
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
I forgot about Bhoja Air actually, so you're right it was 3. That accident was especially crazy since it was the re-start of the airline after going out of business years before having flown YAK-42s around Pakistan. But anyway, I wouldn't say it's horrible relative to nations with a similarly sized aviation industry and economic disparity. Horrible by our modern standards, but not for places like India, Indonesia, ect. The point is, 4th accident in 10 years, planes don't crash "all the time" there so it is a big deal in the country I'm sure. Given the training, technology, ATC, terrain, ect, it could be a lot worse. Just being realistic here as someone who spends a lot of time reading about accidents. 50 active commercial planes is actually a lot for a country with an economy like Pakistan, honestly.


Well anything is possible, but the radar tracks and information thus far don't seem to show any contact with the ground happened prior to impact which is why I stated it does not appear to have been from scraping the runway. Who knows with the modern media spewing out "facts". Either way, just absolutely surreal to see a photo of that stricken Airbus gliding on it's way down to the city. :(
July 2010 was Airblue, so that was within the last 10 yrs. 4 fatal hull losses. Countless many near accident/incidents.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
There is damage ahead of the gang drain and both masts appear to be gone. It is entirely possible (and my guess at this point which means nothing) that they could have had a gear issue of some sort, attempted a landing with the gear up, scraped the nacelles, executed a go-around and all hell started breaking loose. It explains the RAT being deployed and both engines failing.
Got a pic/link?
 

Boris Badenov

Someone should definitely do *something*, Captain!
Obviously it's early days and no one knows. That said, it's not absurd to mention that the oil coolers are on the bottom, the cowls are pretty obviously scuffed up (and suspiciously oily looking), and the RAT deploys when the IDGs disconnect. No one is suggesting that this is like Probable Cause, but uh, it's kinda worth observing.
 

Inverted

The journey is the meat in the goal sandwich
Yeah. That is kind of a "landing" that you don't get to try again (if true). As in you don't scrape the belly of an airplane and try to haul it back up.

I have no experience with their pilots, but Karachi/Pak ATC is utterly incompetent. If they were manning US consoles, we would have a midair every single day here.
They didn’t scrape the belly. They didn’t strike the tail.But those nacelles didn’t get that way, any other way I dont think. They could have executed a go around in the flare because they forgot the gear and easily scraped the nacelles. That’s an entirely plausible scenario.
 

///AMG

Well-Known Member
They didn’t scrape the belly. They didn’t strike the tail.But those nacelles didn’t get that way, any other way I dont think. They could have executed a go around in the flare because they forgot the gear and easily scraped the nacelles. That’s an entirely plausible scenario.
I think you are reading too much into my choice of the word "belly", but we are in agreement. That was my thought as well. I'd be surprised if their "gear problems" weren't along the lines of "problem because we forgot to lower them".
 

ChasenSFO

hen teaser
WOW! Up close that really does look like scrape damage. I wonder if the ADSB altitude data is accurate or not, sure fits the bill of scraping pavement. Wow, for the sake of the crew and their loved ones, I really hope that didn't happen. :(

Obviously not saying this is the case, but there have been several accidents in the past where pilots turned a crash-landing into an unsuccessful go-around. China Southern Airlines Flight 3456 - Wikipedia and Air Canada Flight 621 - Wikipedia are 2 high profile examples. Man, imagine leaving that legacy behind...
 

thevideographer

Well-Known Member
Have a gear disagree or some other warning > think it is false or misinterpret the warning > silence/ignore the gear horn > forget to select gear down and/or not realize that you don't have 3 green > notice at the last second/ground contact?
 
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