Outstanding F-15 Video

///AMG

Well-Known Member
repost but its a good one. I put it on the projector with surround the other evening on duty as everyone was waiting to walk for an evening flight (or "step" for the AF types around here). It was motivating. That said, they all came back for the "overcranial"
 
repost but its a good one. I put it on the projector with surround the other evening on duty as everyone was waiting to walk for an evening flight (or "step" for the AF types around here). It was motivating. That said, they all came back for the "overcranial"
Super Hornet pilots could show em a thing or two, right? Right? :)
 

MikeD

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Staff member
Which just means I wouldn't be a sluggish dog during the fight :)
Speaking of sluggish dogs and Rodan's; how would a clean E Hornet do against a clean C-Eagle; and how would a clean F Hornet do against a clean (except CFTs) Strike Eagle?
 

///AMG

Well-Known Member
Speaking of sluggish dogs and Rodan's; how would a clean E Hornet do against a clean C-Eagle; and how would a clean F Hornet do against a clean (except CFTs) Strike Eagle?
Very similarly to the Hornet against the Eagle I'd say.
 

///AMG

Well-Known Member
So the new E/F models are pigs?
Not pigs by any means, but there are some differences in flying qualities between the two aircraft. I think those differences would probably be transparent or nearly so to anyone fighting one in an Eagle.

It was once said in a glossy magazine, by a guy with experience in the Hornet and Viper, that the Hornet bleeds energy more quickly, and also accelerates more slowly than anything else he has flown. I'd say that is a pretty honest assessment. We have the ability to bleed hundreds of knots in a matter of seconds, and move the nose extremely aggressively in the process. This is normally pretty eye opening for Eagle guys who haven't fought us before. The good ones recognize their TW advantage, and know what to do with it.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Not pigs by any means, but there are some differences in flying qualities between the two aircraft. I think those differences would probably be transparent or nearly so to anyone fighting one in an Eagle.

It was once said in a glossy magazine, by a guy with experience in the Hornet and Viper, that the Hornet bleeds energy more quickly, and also accelerates more slowly than anything else he has flown. I'd say that is a pretty honest assessment. We have the ability to bleed hundreds of knots in a matter of seconds, and move the nose extremely aggressively in the process. This is normally pretty eye opening for Eagle guys who haven't fought us before. The good ones recognize their TW advantage, and know what to do with it.
Still want to fight a Hog? :)

Toughest opponents I ever fought were both USMC: F-5Es; and just above them in difficulty....AH-1Ws.
 

///AMG

Well-Known Member
Still want to fight a Hog? :)

Toughest opponents I ever fought were both USMC: F-5Es; and just above them in difficulty....AH-1Ws.
If I ever do, I will remember what you have told me to do :) I'd agree about the VMFT-401 F-5's....those dudes are mostly former Hornet guys, and know how we fight. For a jet that is clearly inferior to us on paper, it can hold it's own if you let them box you into a corner. They are also damn near impossible to see outside of a couple miles coming into the merge, which can often yield them an advantage and us less than neutral start.
 

MikeD

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If I ever do, I will remember what you have told me to do :) I'd agree about the VMFT-401 F-5's....those dudes are mostly former Hornet guys, and know how we fight. For a jet that is clearly inferior to us on paper, it can hold it's own if you let them box you into a corner. They are also damn near impossible to see outside of a couple miles coming into the merge, which can often yield them an advantage and us less than neutral start.
Not to mention Soviet tactics like lead/trail or Vic, with good separation between the singleton up front, and the single/element in trail. My time, even with the GCI calling an apparent NEAR/FAR on his scope that was rapidly overtaking us, then refining it to a CHAMPAGNE near the merge when we'd turned into them to engage since we couldn't outrun them, I was already committed on the blow-through lead element that I'd stupidly bit off on, and next I know, have the singleton on my ass that I can't shake and who is smartly jinking as well as tracking; while the lead group I had attempted to chase and get a gun track on....they split/disengaged, disappeared and reappeared seconds later from seemingly nowhere with "Fox 2, kill, supporting Hog, left turn, 4000" as my wingman got kill removed.
 

///AMG

Well-Known Member
Not to mention Soviet tactics like lead/trail or Vic, with good separation between the singleton up front, and the single/element in trail. My time, even with the GCI calling an apparent NEAR/FAR on his scope that was rapidly overtaking us, then refining it to a CHAMPAGNE near the merge when we'd turned into them to engage since we couldn't outrun them, I was already committed on the blow-through lead element that I'd stupidly bit off on, and next I know, have the singleton on my ass that I can't shake and who is smartly jinking as well as tracking; while the lead group I had attempted to chase and get a gun track on....they split/disengaged, disappeared and reappeared seconds later from seemingly nowhere with "Fox 2, kill, supporting Hog, left turn, 4000" as my wingman got kill removed.
Yeah, that sounds not fun, in an A-10, with no missiles and no radar. My favorite was a stack of 5 or 6 jets that all did a fleur-de-lis in the short hairs. Approaching that "merge" was the second most scared I've ever been of having a mid-air, slightly behind a 30 plane LFE I did @ Nellis where I had just barely enough SA to remember to keep breathing. Actually on that one, the only 3 things going through my mind were to stay in my block, do nothing but look outside and try to prevent a midair, and to not fly into the "container".
 

MikeD

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Oh, and attempting to notch the F-5Es radar out of habit......159 I think it is. "I still see you, dummies!" :)
 

///AMG

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Oh, and attempting to notch the F-5Es radar out of habit......159 I think it is. "I still see you, dummies!" :)
That is sort of academic only in practice isn't it? Given the fact that they have GCI/RTO's and are heaters only?
 

MikeD

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Staff member
That is sort of academic only in practice isn't it? Given the fact that they have GCI/RTO's and are heaters only?

Pretty much. However, it's disconcerting when you're getting pinged by them, you know they're short range radar, and you still don't have a tally on them. Falling back on habit, which in their case won't help you, is one of those things you kind of can't waste your time doing when you should remember that it isn't buying you anything and you waste valuable seconds with your mind diverted away from the tally; again, for a tactic that's gaining you squat. Fog of war and all.
 

///AMG

Well-Known Member
Well in your defense, it was probably a sim of something that wasn't heaters only. Either way, I liken BVR kills to unicorns. Guys can fight over BVR shot validation all day long like school children, but there is no arguing your way out of HUD tape when you miss a merge.
 
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