**Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thread**

swinte00

Well-Known Member
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

Swinte, have you looked into the military? Honestly if I were starting over from the time I graduated high school, that is the route I would go. You could still do a 6 year enlistment and have time to get out and go through the normal VRA routine before you turn 31.

That way you will get paid instead of investing thousands of dollars for a degree that is only good for one thing, and it isn't even a sure thing.

I read in the Inspector General's report that the Tower PV is severely subjective, and that some people pass with 2 violations while others fail with no violations. Maybe in a few years they will have remedied that situation
Tower PV subjective? :yup:
I'd have to agree with that, but most people on here who haven't met me, nor did they work Academy positions with me would just say that I sucked at being a controller and it's not something I'm cut out for. My aptitude for learning and picking things up at a faster pace than most says otherwise.

Looking back at it, almost a full year later (Wednesday will be the day that I failed my PV last year) I'd say I just had a case of severe nervousness. I had a court date I had to reschedule due to a car accident I got into the weekend prior to my PV, and being as I had never been to court for ANYTHING, much less a traffic incident, had my mind in other places besides controlling.

Yes, I know, had I passed I would have had to leave that at the door before plugging in, but when your entire career is on the line because of one test, it's bogus, IMHO.

Enough about that, though. The military is something I've looked into, but that's also no guarantee. I've taken steps to get into shape in case I do opt for that route, but we'll see.

In the mean time, I'm still writing software for a large company here in Arkansas.

Also, I had just graduated with my Bachelor's degree before going to the Academy, not high school. I've made some poorer decisions in my life, like turning down an appointment to the US Naval Academy, so the military is still in the back of my mind.
 

greg1016

Trustworthy Source
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

Well, it is not unheard of for enlisted men to have degrees, and it would probably mean entering service as an E-4 and easy promotions through E-6.

Basic Training will get you into shape, I think to enter basic training I had to do 3 proper push ups and 5 proper sit ups and run one mile in 8.5 minutes. That was a long time ago though.

It is true the military is no guarantee, but they will possibly pay back some of your student loans, and you won't have to drop thousands of dollars in an education, you only have to commit time. If you don't make it in the military they re-class you and hopefully you get another job your interested in. I'll bet if you join the air force it would have something to do with aviation :D
 

prominence

Well-Known Member
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

Tower PV subjective? :yup:
I'd have to agree with that, but most people on here who haven't met me, nor did they work Academy positions with me would just say that I sucked at being a controller and it's not something I'm cut out for. My aptitude for learning and picking things up at a faster pace than most says otherwise.

Looking back at it, almost a full year later (Wednesday will be the day that I failed my PV last year) I'd say I just had a case of severe nervousness. I had a court date I had to reschedule due to a car accident I got into the weekend prior to my PV, and being as I had never been to court for ANYTHING, much less a traffic incident, had my mind in other places besides controlling.

Yes, I know, had I passed I would have had to leave that at the door before plugging in, but when your entire career is on the line because of one test, it's bogus, IMHO.

Enough about that, though. The military is something I've looked into, but that's also no guarantee. I've taken steps to get into shape in case I do opt for that route, but we'll see.

In the mean time, I'm still writing software for a large company here in Arkansas.

Also, I had just graduated with my Bachelor's degree before going to the Academy, not high school. I've made some poorer decisions in my life, like turning down an appointment to the US Naval Academy, so the military is still in the back of my mind.

Hey there. So I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I'd really like your opinion after being on the forums for over a year and reading posts by you.

I have been waiting for my facility with a TOL since March of 2009. In the process of waiting, I landed a job with a company I love and am making decent money - a lil more than what the AG grade is for starting level at my facility.

I am very worried about taking this "jump" into ATC and am curious to learn more about this "PV" - is this the only test you take that may "fail you out" of the career, or is there more than one "PV"? Also, what does the "PV" consist of if you don't mind sharing?

ATC has been my dream, but I have a mortgage and it's so financially risky that I put my credit and financial success on the line for a "subjective test" where someone else gets to decide my future even if I put in my heart and soul. Since ATC is never a "100% guarantee" until you get your FOL, I told myself I'd move forward with my life as if I didn't have a TOL, and if I got an FOL some day, great. Well, I moved on with my life and now have a great job and a mortgage - which makes this jump to ATC a lot riskier if I choose to accept it when my time finally comes in the future now. Your thoughts?
 
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

I have been waiting for my facility with a TOL since March of 2009. In the process of waiting, I landed a job with a company I love and am making decent money - a lil more than what the AG grade is for starting level at my facility.

I am very worried about taking this "jump" into ATC and am curious to learn more about this "PV" - is this the only test you take that may "fail you out" of the career, or is there more than one "PV"? Also, what does the "PV" consist of if you don't mind sharing?

ATC has been my dream, but I have a mortgage and it's so financially risky that I put my credit and financial success on the line for a "subjective test" where someone else gets to decide my future even if I put in my heart and soul. Since ATC is never a "100% guarantee" until you get your FOL, I told myself I'd move forward with my life as if I didn't have a TOL, and if I got an FOL some day, great. Well, I moved on with my life and now have a great job and a mortgage - which makes this jump to ATC a lot riskier if I choose to accept it when my time finally comes in the future now. Your thoughts?[/QUOTE]

I passed the academy enroute last april and work at houston center, i have taken three map test at the facility that each if failed would have cost me my job. 1 approach plate test 1 loa test and then when you make it to simulators I had 7 "pvs" that while at the academy you can get away with a violation of airspace or a missed point out any of these things will fail you and if you fail the retake you loose your job. the PV at the academy was the easy part of the process the facility is where you really have to buckle down. Sorry not to scare anyone i just wish someone would have told me what to be prepared for because i thought the academy pv was end all testing too..
 

swinte00

Well-Known Member
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

First off, forgive me if this is short but I'm on my phone because my Internet is out at the moment.

The PV is your final test at the academy. It's really not a difficult problem to run in the sims, but as I as well as many others before me have said, nerves seem to be the reason for most peoples failures. You work around 12 inbound aircraft and about 15 to 20 outbound. (Going from memory). To this day I am still mad at myself for failing even though I believe the "subjective" grading of the run was the real reason for my failure.

I understand that you have financial obligations in your life right now, but trust me; the benefits of the private sector will never be able to compare with those of the Feds, unless of course you go to work for Google. I'd recommend that you take the risk, because you only live once. If you don't go for it, you'll look back on this opportunity and kick yourself for not jumping on it.

Even if you do fail your PV, I feel that I'm living proof that there's life after being sent home without a job. I spent about a month on unemployment before I landed a job worth taking.

Since you'll be going to a terminal facility, things probably won't be quite as complex as they are at Houston center, but you'll still have your hands full during training. I wish you the best of luck and hope that things work out for the best for you.

In other news, one of my classmates from basics just CPCd at MEM. Oh, and the Razorbacks are back at #11.
 

greg1016

Trustworthy Source
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

I'm gonna have to disagree with Swinte. If you already have a job that you like and that pays well enough to meet your needs, I would stick with the sure thing. A FOL is not a guarantee, and neither is academy graduation.


On another note...those of you who recently got FOLs, how long did it take from the time you took your drug test until you actually had an FOL in hand? I am looking at about 10 days right now, 14 if you go back to the email with the class offer in it (longest 14 days since I submitted my application). When I emailed my rep back to inform her I had taken the drug test, she apparently did not get the email, but I did get a reply after sending a follow-up email a few days later.
 
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

On another note...those of you who recently got FOLs, how long did it take from the time you took your drug test until you actually had an FOL in hand? I am looking at about 10 days right now, 14 if you go back to the email with the class offer in it (longest 14 days since I submitted my application).
For me it was two weeks.
 

greg1016

Trustworthy Source
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

cool, thanks. I won't start getting worried for another couple days then.
 
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

Hey there. So I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I'd really like your opinion after being on the forums for over a year and reading posts by you.

I have been waiting for my facility with a TOL since March of 2009. In the process of waiting, I landed a job with a company I love and am making decent money - a lil more than what the AG grade is for starting level at my facility.

I am very worried about taking this "jump" into ATC and am curious to learn more about this "PV" - is this the only test you take that may "fail you out" of the career, or is there more than one "PV"? Also, what does the "PV" consist of if you don't mind sharing?

ATC has been my dream, but I have a mortgage and it's so financially risky that I put my credit and financial success on the line for a "subjective test" where someone else gets to decide my future even if I put in my heart and soul. Since ATC is never a "100% guarantee" until you get your FOL, I told myself I'd move forward with my life as if I didn't have a TOL, and if I got an FOL some day, great. Well, I moved on with my life and now have a great job and a mortgage - which makes this jump to ATC a lot riskier if I choose to accept it when my time finally comes in the future now. Your thoughts?

I'm gonnna chime in here since I went through the same situation as Swinte. I too failed my Tower PV, and I will tell you I failed both times without an Operational Error. It is Highly Subjective and you CAN fail without having a deal. Keep in mind, I think my PV was the perfect storm of nerves and just overall bad luck. It's been a year and I'm still not over it. This is because I sat back and saw other people pass on an easier problem, commit Operational Errors and then watch as their evaluators gave them a pass on things I was busted for. I know I did not perform to the best of my abilities but damn I knew I could do the job. I still look back and think it's not right.

I was nervous as hell though, so if you can get over the nervousness and you've got some ability, your money, unless you get an evaluator like me, you better be perfect.

Having said that I don't want to scare you but from reading your situation, I think you should weigh both the finanacial aspect of this decision as well as picturing yourself being an Air Traffic Controller for the next 25 years and all of the ramifications that come with being a controller. Even though I washed out early, It was a hell of a fun job and I enjoyed it immensely. There's probably nothing like it when you actually plug in as a CPC. But as anything in life IT IS a hell of a calculated risk. I also think there is nothing more expensive than regret. Just like Swinte said, You don't want to sit back, years from now and wished you had done something differently. I would say go for it man.:bandit:
 

swinte00

Well-Known Member
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

Patrick and Swinet, did you have the same evaluator both times? Just curious.
Yes for the final PV, the same guy does it for everyone's second time around.

No, I did not have the same evaluator for both of my PVs.
 

greg1016

Trustworthy Source
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

ugh...

I still haven't received my FOL, I received the email offering me a class date three weeks ago today, and my drug screening was done eighteen days ago. I sent my rep an email to ask if there were any problems, and I got the return receipt email, but no reply. That was yesterday, and we are reaching the close of business for today. I'm really only worried because I need to book a room/apartment for four months and I don't want to do that till I have the FOL in hand.
 
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

What's your class date?

It's not tied down to retest dates perfectly. My retest was a month ago, but I won't be going in till Jan. 10 (well, presumably. it's what I was told, but no FOL yet).

But if you've gotten a date out of them, go ahead and start talking to providers. While nobody is thrilled if you have back out on them, it's the FAA, and they know that it happens.
 

greg1016

Trustworthy Source
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

Nov. 2 class date. I'm 2.5 weeks out right now and I've already notified my current employer (although I'm sure he'd be happy to keep me on a while longer, I don't want to be there any more)
 

jermscentral

Well-Known Member
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

What's your class date?

It's not tied down to retest dates perfectly. My retest was a month ago, but I won't be going in till Jan. 10 (well, presumably. it's what I was told, but no FOL yet).

But if you've gotten a date out of them, go ahead and start talking to providers. While nobody is thrilled if you have back out on them, it's the FAA, and they know that it happens.
One of the reasons I recommend Kim's Place; if you are interested, let her know ASAP! Her spots fill up fast, and she's totally fine if your date changes, because she has a waiting list that she can go by if you change dates for any reason.
 
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

Okay so I got redirected while back from Long Beach (LGB) to La Verne (POC) so that I could get in during FY 2011. I have been patiently waiting because La Verne was going to be an awesome location for me. Today I get a call telling me "nevermind La Verne won't have any openings this FY"...crap! So I take a redirect from La Verne, which I loved, to El Monte (EMT) in order to get a January 2011 class date.

This move would be a decrease from a level 6 to 5, so less pay, worse commute, etc. Not to mention the fact that the view from the La Verne tower is really nice whereas El Monte tower overlooks a bunch of run down industrial nothing from what I can tell. For these reasons I had a hard time taking the redirect instead of continuing to wait for La Verne.

I'm trying to see the upside. Does anyone happen to know anything good about El Monte airport that would make this all feel a little more exciting?
 
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

you've been waiting so long should be happy/lucky to have a foot in the door. you can always apply for a transfer.
 
Re: **Official "Not Until Next Fiscal Year (Oct. 2010)" Thre

you've been waiting so long should be happy/lucky to have a foot in the door. you can always apply for a transfer.

Exactlly..some of us haven't gotten that foot in the door yet :) Heck some of us are even going for Alaska :p
 
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