Non-Pilot Operating An Aircraft...???

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
Here's a stumper for all parties....

Not that I have, or am planning on doing this....nor have I seen it done.....

This question came up during a conversation with a fellow pilot.

If a non-pilot wants to start an aircraft's engine(s), and taxi across the airport ramp area, without entering or crossing any taxiways or runways, etc - with no intention on flying the aircraft - has a regulation been broken?

If anyone knows the answer, with an appropriate reference, plase let me know. I can't identify a reg that applies to this...

Thanks!
mtsu
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
I'm not entirely sure. I would say no, no regulations have been broken. BUT, if something were to happen (run over someone, hit another aircraft on the ramp injuring someone, whatever), the FAA could easily slap that person with a violation of 91.13(b)- "aircraft operations other than for the purpose of air navigation." Also, the insurance company would probably roll over laughing, not giving up a penny, of course. But like I said, I'm not sure...so theres my answer.
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
I believe I was a non-pilot when I took my first lesson and started the engines and taxied the aircraft..... so, I'm gonna say - no.... as long as an instructor is present.

Now.... watch me be completely wrong.
 

Snow

'Not a new member'
Hum, well arn't there ramp guys who are authorised to taxi the aircraft but are not qualifed pilots as such?
 

SierraPilot

New Member
I would say yes.. 61.3 states a person may not act as PIC unless that person has a valid pilot certificate. Also 61.3 states that the in order to act as PIC you must have a medical certificate which is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft.

While this person may not be flying the aircraft.. if he was alone he would still be considered the PIC of the aircraft and would fall under 61.3 in my opinion.


§ 61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.

(a) Pilot certificate. A person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of U.S. registry, unless that person --

(1) Has a valid pilot certificate or special purpose pilot authorization issued under this part in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. However, when the aircraft is operated within a foreign country, a current pilot license issued by the country in which the aircraft is operated may be used; and

(2) Has a photo identification that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. The photo identification must be a:

(i) Valid driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the United States;

(ii) Government identification card issued by the Federal government, a State, the District of Columbia, or a territory or possession of the United States;

(c) Medical certificate.
(1) Except as provided for in paragraph (c)(2) of this section, a person may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft, under a certificate issued to that person under this part, unless that person has a current and appropriate medical certificate that has been issued under part 67 of this chapter, or other documentation acceptable to the Administrator, which is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft.

Ryan
 

stultus

New Member
While I don't claim to know all--or any--of the intricate details of the FARs...I know that airline mechanics have been known to taxi planes.
 

PurduePilot

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
I know that airline mechanics have been known to taxi planes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe this guys need a special license, at least in the airlines. It's not really a license, per say, just their normal A&P with taxiing priveliges.
 

av8rmsu

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Here's a stumper for all parties....

Not that I have, or am planning on doing this....nor have I seen it done.....

This question came up during a conversation with a fellow pilot.

If a non-pilot wants to start an aircraft's engine(s), and taxi across the airport ramp area, without entering or crossing any taxiways or runways, etc - with no intention on flying the aircraft - has a regulation been broken?

If anyone knows the answer, with an appropriate reference, plase let me know. I can't identify a reg that applies to this...

Thanks!
mtsu

[/ QUOTE ]


Nope...

He's not PIC because he has no intentions of flying anywhere. He is just "driving the airplane" around the ramp.

If he were to wrap the plane around the corner of a hangar, would the FAA have to be contacted? nope...as long as there was less than $25000 of damage done to property other than the aircraft. And the aircraft suffered no substantial damage, i.e. bent the spar. Read part 830 in the FARs.

I don't think there is anything in the FARs that say a person must have a certificate to "drive" an airplane on taxiways or runways. If the field is controlled, they have to comply with ATC clearances from the tower.


Mechanic at home taxied planes from maintenance to the main ramp. I think common sense would tell you...don't be fart'in around in an airplane unless you know what you are doing.
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
Thanks, everybody! I figured that it wouldn't be illegal, as there is no intent to fly the aircraft. I was just wondering if anyone could point out a specific reg dealing with the issue.....Thanks!
 

JJPilot

Well-Known Member
This is why I love this place... I learn something everytime I come on here... Granted I forget it as soon as I leave...
 

SierraPilot

New Member
Our mechanics taxi aircraft all the time as well, however they are required to be checked out in the aircraft first. The problem is none of these A&P's can tell me if this is a FAR.

The issue isnt if a mechanic can move the aircraft, but if they, or anyone else who might be a non-pilot are operating under the FAR's or if the movement of an aircraft on its own power on the surface by a non-pilot does not apply to the FARs if its purpose is just for the relocation of the aircraft.

Ryan
 

ScorpionStinger

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's legal. that person needs some sort of training first.

I'm thinking that in order for you to solo you need to Have a Student pilot cert. and a log book indorsment.

I think a Solo Cert mean you can operate and A/C with out CFI on board.

because let's say it's just any one that get the key's and for some reason decide to takeoff in uncontroled Airspace. He has no training ( only on Flight Sim with Rod
) . What is he going to do when he needs to land, what about crosswind corrections during taxi with high winds.

Operation of an A/C does not just mean in the Air.It also means on the ground, if your not Qualified to Operate an A/c (Student pilot License or Private Pilot license ) then you should not Operate it !! Unless you have someone with you who is ( CFI ), or a written documentation.
 

SteveC

Really?
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's illegal. that person needs some soty of training first. It should be indicated on a log book also.

I'm thinking that in order for you to solo you need to Have a Student pilot cert. and a log book indorsment.

I think a Solo Cert with CFI signiture is required.

because let's say it's just any one that get the key's and for some reason decide to takeoff in uncontroled Airspace. he has not training ( only on Flight Sim with Rod ) what is he going to do how is he going to land, what about crosswind corrections during taxi in high winds,


Operation of an A/C is also on the ground, if your not Qualified to Operate an A/c (Student pilot License or Private Pilot license ) then you should not Operate it !! Unless you have someone with you who is ( CFI )

[/ QUOTE ]

Me thinks Saturday night partying is showing in the thought processes, eh? (Either mine in reading, or his in writing)
 

pkloop

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
This is why I love this place... I learn something everytime I come on here... Granted I forget it as soon as I leave...


[/ QUOTE ]


Ditto
 

av8rmsu

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's legal. that person needs some sort of training first.

I'm thinking that in order for you to solo you need to Have a Student pilot cert. and a log book indorsment.

I think a Solo Cert mean you can operate and A/C with out CFI on board.

because let's say it's just any one that get the key's and for some reason decide to takeoff in uncontroled Airspace. He has no training ( only on Flight Sim with Rod
) . What is he going to do when he needs to land, what about crosswind corrections during taxi with high winds.

Operation of an A/C does not just mean in the Air.It also means on the ground, if your not Qualified to Operate an A/c (Student pilot License or Private Pilot license ) then you should not Operate it !! Unless you have someone with you who is ( CFI ), or a written documentation.

[/ QUOTE ]


Prove it with the FARs.

Getting some training has nothing to do with having a certificate or soloing. If a person is operating an aircraft with no intentions of flying....he does not need any type of certificate

Common sense will tell you he might need some training on the operation and airport markings, etc. But he is not PILOTING anything.
 

eodfe

New Member
My own experience in the Navy is all I needed was training and a letter saying I can taxi the plane, signed by my squadron.
 

davetheflyer

New Member
I don't think that you are required to be a PIC unless you intend to fly the airplane. Non-rated mechanics move aircraft frequently.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]


If a non-pilot wants to start an aircraft's engine(s), and taxi across the airport ramp area, without entering or crossing any taxiways or runways, etc - with no intention on flying the aircraft - has a regulation been broken?



[/ QUOTE ]

Mechanics do it all the time.

Listen to ground control at night and you'll hear mechanics taxiing the aircraft to and from the terminal and maintenance hangar.
 

IrishSheepdog

Sitting in the median
Our mechanics do it all the time as well. Only problem is they leave the cockpit in shambles. Plus, they never bother to leave the paper service mats on the floor. Ya know the ones, that say "THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATRONAGE" with the shoe silouettes on them. What service, sheesh!
 
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