New Program

Alaska

New Member
I would love some advise on ATA's new program. Here is an email from them that gives the basics. Let me know what you think.

Airline Training Academy is starting off the new year with a brand new program that promises to stand the airline training industry on it's ear. We're calling it the ATP Program. Our new program is zero time to Airline Transport Pilot without ever becoming a flight instructor!



******* 1500 hours! Zero time though Multi-Engine Airline Transport Pilot
******* Jet Trained by Airline Pilots in AirStage II
******* Program is price guaranteed
******* Airline interview is guaranteed

This new program meets or exceeds the requirements of every single regional airline in the country! The complete program is priced at $65,000 which includes all flight, ground, check rides, books, supplies, uniforms etc.... Everything but your cost of living. However, for students signing up in the month of January for classes starting no later than April, we are offering the entire program at $55,000. (That's approximately $37/flight hour!). Upon graduation you will be an Airline Transport Pilot jet trained by airline pilots!

Don't let this opportunity pass you by! Call now for all the details.


They say that you do stage I and II as regular (about 400 hrs) then they send you up in 152's and 172's (two pilots per plane) to just fly for another 1100 hrs. Approx. total time 18 months.
So what do you think?
 

pavelump

Well-Known Member
I think that if I had 1100 hrs in a 152 I would kill somebody.

But, on the bright side I'm sure that the airlines would find that time very valuable.


Dave
 

pavelump

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Airlines don't give a rat's a$$ about 1100 152/172 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm hoping that you got the implied sarcasm in my statement right?

Dave
 

Alaska

New Member
I'm not a cheerleader for ATA but I do try to look at things with an open mind. I know that FSI does a great job training pilots. I also believe that ATA may not have everything that FSI has but it does a good job training as well. ATA may have other problems but so does FSI. It is hard to talk trash about a school that gets its pilots to 1500 hrs at a cost of 55K. (assuming that ATA does what it says). As it stands a FSI student would still be on the CFI waiting list by the time an ATA student has his or her ATP certificate.
I know that 152 time is at the bottom of the flight food chain but having an ATP certificate is a big plus, and 1100 hrs of 152 is better than nothing.
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Alaska,

You asked for our opinions, which we gave, and then you tell us we aren't being fair and equitable. The truth is that an ATP with 1100 152/172 hours, half of which is safety pilot, isn't worth the paper it's printed on. It's a BS program designed to separate you and your money.

Could I be any clearer? ATA has lost any respect I dad for it. Kids not understanding the industry will think they're getting something valuable, when in fact, they really aren't.

Chunk
 

pure_IMC

New Member
Con- if it's a safety pilot situation, one guy has to wear the foggles to log pic.
Con- have you ever been in a 152 with 2 average size guys? I would barely be able to stand it for an hour, much less a cross country.

Pro-can't really think of one know, execpt maybe the price is right. Ill get back when I can think of something else.
 

pavelump

Well-Known Member
Hell, for that matter you could buy your own 152 and fly around for 1100 hours. I'm getting that David Clark headache just thinking about it. But at least you'd have a plane at the end of it.

Dave
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
Additionally, (1100/2=550hrs) from what I've heard airlines/flight departments don't exactly get excited over hundreds of hours of safety pilot time. I heard that some even limit the amount of safety pilot time they include in your total time.
Really! If you want to fly a 152 around, go buy one for $18,000 and log all the PIC for yourself.
 

yankee_one

New Member
Does ATA have any interviews or such after to reach 1500 hours? No airline is going to touch someone 1500 hours unless they are from a program such as FSA's or Comair's and have a guaranteed interview set up already. Funny that ATA has no mention of any jobs at the end of the road.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Does ATA have any interviews or such after to reach 1500 hours? No airline is going to touch someone 1500 hours unless they are from a program such as FSA's or Comair's and have a guaranteed interview set up already. Funny that ATA has no mention of any jobs at the end of the road.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true. There are pilots getting hired at 1500/100 at the regionals. These are CFI's that aren't necessarily coming from academy 'bridge' programs, or guaranteed interview deals.
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
No airline is going to touch someone 1500 hours unless they are from a program such as FSA's or Comair's and have a guaranteed interview set up already.

[/ QUOTE ]
I see somebody from FSA's marketing department chimed in. That, or a student who bought the marketing song and dance lock, stock and barrell.

I generally don't post on FSA's sight, but I do monitor it for entertaiment purposes, but I'll make an exception here and say....

WRONG!!!

A CFI at the FBO where I earned my PP-ASEL (read: Part 61) - with somewhere in the neighborhood of 1400 to 1600 TT (I initially thought he had 1800, but was informed recently he had less) was given a Jan. 03 class date at either ACA or ASA (which one, I'm not 100% sure).

So, please do yourself and FSA (a fine program, I'm sure - no squabble there. Lot's of respect, much love) a favor and don't speak of which you have NO knowledge.

Nuff said.
R2F
 

Alaska

New Member
As I stated, I'm not a big cheerleader for ATA but I don't think that it hurts to "TRY" to look for the good in other programs. The thing that scares me the most about ATA is their credibility. However, I like that they will give a set price up front and they are trying to find new ways to get people from 0 - to a job.

Keep in mind that at most academies you will spend 50k+ and have 200-300 hrs. (before working as a cfi) ATA for that same price is giving you 1500 hrs. Some people may not want to work as a CFI or wait 6-12 months on a list. For these people this program may work. Am I going to do it? No, but this does not mean that it won't work for someone else. And it sure doesn't hurt to talk about the pros and cons.

As for a guaranteed interview, they say in the email that the program includes a guaranteed interview. What does this mean? Not a lot! Just like at Comair and FSI. In the end you have to earn a job, an interview alone means nothing if you can't fly a plane.

I appreciate that people are willing to post comments on this web page. However, it is a lot easier to value the comments of someone that can look at both side of the picture than someone who will only say how great their school is and how bad every other program is.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
You guys are still glossing over the fact a huge percentage of this time is saftey pilot. wake up people.
 

cimepilot

Well-Known Member
Pavelump,

I understood your sarcasm. I was just echoing your opinion.

Alaska,

You have got to be crazy and ignorant to think ATA's program is worth the money. Airlines, corporate, freight operators, it doesn't matter...1100 152/172 hours are worthless. Those planes don't even have a retractable gear or constant speed prop. Getting an ATP because you have 1100 hours in a slow, non-complex airplane is worthless to you and any employer that you send a resume to.
 

Alaska

New Member
I understand what you guys are saying, but look at the big picture. What I am trying to say is that for the same price or less in the same time period, (about 18 months) a student doing this program at ATA will have 1365 single and 135 multi hrs with an ATP cert. What this student will lack is a CFI rating. (something he may or may not need)

At this point if the student gets a cfi cert. then just like any other cfi they can look for a cfi job and hope to build higher quality time. They also have the ability to apply for a regional job. This is not something you can do waiting on a list to become a cfi. The difference will be the additional time they will already have obtained. Who knows they may even get a job and not have to work as a cfi.

Keep in mind, I do not think that this is the perfect path but it is interesting. By saying that this program is worth looking at is not saying that FSI is a bad place. It is a great academy! But just like ATA it is not the place for everyone.
 

CFICANFLY

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
You have got to be crazy and ignorant to think ATA's program is worth the money. Airlines, corporate, freight operators, it doesn't matter...1100 152/172 hours are worthless. Those planes don't even have a retractable gear or constant speed prop. Getting an ATP because you have 1100 hours in a slow, non-complex airplane is worthless to you and any employer that you send a resume to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that 152/172 time is worthless, as you say. That's where the majority of time spent as a CFI is anyway, in a slow, non-complex airplane. The real question is how you spent that time, did you make it productive? Several people touched on that when questioning whether or not it's safety pilot time. 1100 hours be-bopping around Florida VFR isn't very quality time, but making cross-country trips across the country getting some good IFR would be very good (heck, I'd like to do that). As someone else said, you could buy your own 152 & do that. The benefit of buying your own aircraft is that you can sell it at the end & recoup some of your money. Bottomline is, if you don't want to CFI, it might be a good option, if you can really make the best of it (really long cross-countrys/hard IFR/mountain/etc.). And for the sake of full disclosure, I am an FSI grad & CFI (not at FSI & not on the waiting list either, going to A&P school).

'canfly
 

aviator

New Member
There are a couple issues to consider about all this time they are offering. It is a lot of flight time for the money and I don't think it's totally worthless but consider it from an potential employers point of view.
Airlines don't fill FO positions based on time in your logbook they are looking for quality expierence. One thing that will be considered is that you have gained expierence thru employment. i.e. exercising the privledges of your commercial ticket. This is not the same as touring around as a safety pilot in a 152. It also appears as if your coming out of the program with a single engine ATP. With one of these in your hand and 50 cents you may be able to buy a cup of coffee.
 
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