New info on ATA

simscott

New Member
I'm going to do something almost unheard of on this board and that is, I'm going to report just the facts and no opinions. I called ATA to look into the the Airstage III program.

In order to enter ASII you need, 23ME 260TT

ASIII is a SIC job with Ameriflight for 400 hours of turbine time for future enployment with ACA and in the future once they start hiring, Skywest.

The ASII cost $20,000 with the ASIII adding an additional $10,000 for time building.

I was informed that the ASII program will be raising to $25,000 in the next few months.

I would like to call later to get some details but thats the jist of it, the reason I talked about AS II & III is because I already have all my ratings and if I chose to go there it would be entering the ASII program.

Hope this helps anyone interested in attending
 

pavelump

Well-Known Member
Is that at Yow! (that's great) or Yow! (that sucks). I visited ATA last week and the info that I got was that for the extra $10,000 you were hired by Ameriflight as a (unpaid) FO for 3 months where you would build 300 hours in a turbine aircraft. The school gets $10k, Ameriflight gets a free pilot, and you get 300hrs. I dunno, it actually seemed pretty cool to me. In addition to that, ATA has a 45 day guarantee that you will get a job as a FO or they will refund $30,000 (the price of AirStage II and III). There are however a few stipulations to that guarantee.

1. You have to pay for the program in full upon starting the program.
2. Zero No-shows
3. Complete all Ground School on Schedule
4. Complete all written tests on schedule
5. Have your account paid in full (I think that we already went over that in # 1 right?)
6. You can’t miss more than 4 days due to illness, LOA or other absences without written approval.
7. Must be enrolled full time
8. Must pass commercial/multi-engine FAA check ride the first time
9. Must maintain scores of 90% or better on all written tests in Stage II
10. Must complete the full Stage I and Stage II at ATA
11. Must accept the assigned designated airline. You do not get to pick and choose the airline assignment..

I actually like the vibe that I got from ATA. Not too big, but yet they seem pretty professional. I was pretty skeptical about getting a job with 500 hours and no instructing, but I kind of feel like the extra multi/turbine time makes it more feasible. With that, I would have ~700 total hours with 435 being multi and 300 of that being turbine. Now, the question that I have is, because Ameriflight is part 135, does that help towards getting a job with a regional? Or is part 141 instructing better? Do the stipulations to the guarantee seem impossible or nearly impossible to achieve?

Dave
 

MartinFierro

New Member
I am a skeptical person. But I'd say, in my opinion, that 135 flight time is more valuable to regionals than instructing time, all else being equal.
 

172_Captain

New Member
I would have to agree with that statement. If you look at it from the airlines viewpoint as a flight instructor your sitting in the right seat arms folded pointing out student errors, as a crewmember
of a 135 operation even as SIC your flying as a line pilot with schedules and duties, more like the airline.
 

simscott

New Member
Sorry about that, it seems that it is 300 hours of turbine for $10,000 instead of 400 hours.

That does seem like a lot of money but when it cost $4-5,000 just to get your private depending what plane you are training in then 300 hours in a turbine for $10,000 sounds like a good deal.

All the "bad" info people are talking about seems to have happen a like 2 years ago when they were going through some growing pains with too many students and not enough planes or classrooms. Now that they have added on to their building and got the new RJ sim, and even a reduction in complaints, looks like things might be smoothing out. Thats why I think you never heard about the good because when you get pissed because you dropped out or left then you want to spread your word and vent to feel better.
But like Marcus said, if you study hard and stick it out, you'll get where you want to go.
 

simscott

New Member
Hey Pavelump

It would be very hard to meet those demands that you listed but think about it this way, why would you want to bust your butt studying to get over 90% and not flunking checkrides in the end just to get your money back? That would be nice but you want an AIRLINE job, not a refund saying thanks for trying!

If no one is hiring then I would stick it out until someone does hire, then set me up for that FO position, no matter how long (within reason). Because if you do get the money back you are back at square one and that could be enough for people that dont have flying in their blood to give up.
 

pavelump

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I'm not sure that I understand your point... how would you be back at square one? I'd think that you'd be quite a few squares ahead and 30,000 dollars richer if they didn't find you a job. And if you are getting 90% or better and not failing any checkrides, you'd (i assume) be a pretty decent pilot who would eventually get a job. Of course I'm not trying to find a school so that I can fail in finding a job to get the refund, that would be silly. Do you speak from experience when you say that the demands would be very hard to meet or are you just supposing that they would be? (just a question, not a confrontation) If I were to not get a job in the 45 days promised would I stop looking? Of course not. It's would be nice to know though that ATA would be busting their asses, at least for the first 45 days /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif, to help you out in order not to lose $30k.

Dave
 

simscott

New Member
Looking back at my post I can see where it may have been confusing. What I was trying to imply was that if you are working your ass off for these standard they set, you want to get a job in the end because after its all said and done you have put sweat and tears plus 8 months of you life to not have a job. Yeah you have some great turbine time, but you know what? There are hundreds of guys that have great jet time on furlough though. That guarantee might have been great before 9/11 when you could get hired with 500TT 100ME but now all that does is give you a jumpstart on the job hunting process (which I might add is a long and painful process, unless you have the hook-up). Basically, you want to fly and if given the choice, and you know they will, you'll wait instead of the refund because it looks like that they got first dibs on FO positions that open up.

You might still disagree with me but thats my view, and I respect your opinion. I think its time we all should start being humble and start acting like professional that we want to be instead of throwing spam at each other.

See ya in the skies and good luck on your decision /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif
 

pavelump

Well-Known Member
Are you trying to say, "Don't choose a school based on a money back guarantee, choose a school that will give you a quality education and the best chance at a job."?

I would agree with that 100%. I would like to believe that I could get both with ATA. Anybody think otherwise?

Dave
 

simscott

New Member
I wouldnt want to tell anyone what school they should goto but if they can receive a good education and a job in the end at ATA then that would be great. I personally am considering them as a school, after all the bad mouthing and slander towards them their record of sending students to the airlines still stands, I believe at over 98%. I'm also looking into Mesa's PACE program which is almost $15-20,000 cheaper and from what I hear gets you to the same spot. Still have more research to do.....
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Free pilot for Ameriflight, huh...

DON'T • YOURSELF OUT! You have skills, you are providing a service to a company making a profit (hopefully) and you have a right to be paid. To do otherwise is taking a legitimate job from a more qualified pilot....almost like, but not quite, a sc@b. Again...don't prostitute yourself for a measly 300 hours.....

Chunk
 

simscott

New Member
I have to disagree somewhat to your statement. What more qualified pilot are you referencing? Who's more qualified to fly SIC on a Part 135 op than a Comm/ME pilot? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be taking a job away from a ATP Captain. SIC on a 135op is a time builder, period. Now we may be even talking a different story if it was the PIC position on the Part 135. I would only be "whoring" myself if I wasn't able to log the hours I flew with them.
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
If you are flying for free to build hours when a more experienced pilot would be paid, you are whoring yourself and taking a paid gig that you wouldn't normally be able to get without agreeing to do it for free.

Chunk
 

simscott

New Member
Well, I think the best person to let us know whats going on at ATA is Marcus Price since he is currently attending the school.

Come out and fill us in on the happenings and moral at ATA, people are thirsty for infomation.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
If you have a commercial certificate and you're flying an aircraft that is generating revenue for the owner, and you're not getting paid, that's very disheartening.

Because I can guarantee, two years ago there was probably someone in that very seat getting paid to do what you're doing for free.

If an operator sees his competition earning more revenue by selling the right seat to low time pilots, then he may decide to start a "program" himself. The more operators that start "programs" decreases the available pool of potential jobs which is bad news for us all.
 

VJPilot

New Member
I know that is very disheartening but I know of several pilots that are flying around in DC-3's and BE-99's for free. Just racking up the hours. Some of them now have gotten regional jobs! I actually thought of doing that myself but decided on becoming a CFI instead. I'm stuck working on my CFI while they are getting seniority at the regionals. Its sad but it looks like you have to do whatever you can to get there. Even if it means whoring yourself.
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Reminds me of an old joke....


An old ugly guy goes up to a pretty young girl and flashes a 20-spot and asks if she would sleep with him. She shrieks and gets mad saying NO WAY! He then asks would you do it for $1 million, she thinks about all the shoes she could buy at Nordstrom's, figures this guy is broke and shrugs...says, "Probably". He then pulls out a fifty and asked if that was enough. She gets REALLY mad and says, "What do you think I am, a •?" He smiles and says, "Well, we established that, now we're just haggling price."

Integrity is the hallmark of manhood! Don't • yourself!

Chunk
 

VJPilot

New Member
Chunk75 that was a good one! Makes me feel a little better about my decision to get my CFI. But at the same time it just amazes me at the number of pilots out there that would • themselves out. It's just sad.
 
Top