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Need help with training contract

Discussion in 'Ask An Aviation Attorney' started by flyinghedgehog, Feb 6, 2017.

  1. BajtheJino

    BajtheJino I'm looking at you.

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    Is this for a super dooper awesome type rating? In today's climate there is never a reason to sign a training contract like this. Its one thing if its just the standard "Please pay us back if you leave. And we'll prorate it too. But if you don't pay us back...well, that's cool too. Please work for us." but with hiring being like it is I wouldn't sign sheet.
     
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  2. flyinghedgehog

    flyinghedgehog Well-Known Member

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    It is awesome but aint 777 nor G550
     
  3. flyinghedgehog

    flyinghedgehog Well-Known Member

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    Update for those who gave their two cents, I have to admit I am not comfortable with the contract at all. Oddly enough a lot of airline pilots friends said it is something they can work with. A friend who runs a successful business said it is not ideal but he would go for it if he were I. MidlifeFlyer said it is not the best but not a deal breaker either.

    One training captain who works for a legacy said NO.

    I am waiting to hear back from two attorneys. Luckily I have friends otherwise these consultations would have run me a grand ( one employment attorney wants $450 an hour for 3 hours minimum.) Lesson for everybody -- it is best to never ever get in trouble to begin with.

    After all was said and done I am still not happy about this. Maybe it is a sign to just leave it behind...dunno
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  4. averettpilot

    averettpilot Well-Known Member

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    I'd work for a regional before ever signing another training contract. Any company that has to financially tie you to them ain't worth crap.
     
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  5. Crop Duster

    Crop Duster UNSUB

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    In what state is the contract being offered?
     
  6. MidlifeFlyer

    MidlifeFlyer Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately, all a lawyer can do is tell you what the documents say and mean, whether and to what extent they are enforceable and, perhaps, what might be negotiable. He or she can't make the risk/benefit decision for you.
     
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  7. flyinghedgehog

    flyinghedgehog Well-Known Member

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    Yeah with the amount of hours I have it is either this or PC-12 operators. Or Ameriflight (scary!) Or maybe flying turbo prop in Alaska. I probably should reach out to those who have worked in Alaska to see if there is any operators that are not shady.
     
  8. Crop Duster

    Crop Duster UNSUB

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    It's rarely shady in Alaska... Too many clouds.

    BTW, what's scary about Ameriflight?
     
  9. flyinghedgehog

    flyinghedgehog Well-Known Member

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    @ Crop Duster you must have flown in Alaska? Care to tell which employers are ok to work for? Want to take this stuff to PM?
     
  10. Bandit_Driver

    Bandit_Driver Gold Member

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    Ask yourself why they are asking guys to sign such a bad contract? They can't retain pilots?

    Now ask yourself Why can't they retain pilots?

    IMO that contract seems outdated as was written for when pilots were dime a dozen. I would try to not sign it if at all possible.
     
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  11. flyinghedgehog

    flyinghedgehog Well-Known Member

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    Update
    Found some more insider information.

    Yes, there are some problems with the way the company operates. They are also having a hard time retaining pilots (hired 3 FOs in a year, most of them quit and paid back the money because they were miserable) Considering how their equipment is desirable (skinny jets), there is something not quite right.

    Unfortunately for those of you who say training contracts are a thing of the past.... well true if you are above 1500 hours going to regional but definitely not true with most 135 operators.
    Aircargo Carriers have training contract (12 months not pro rated)
    Freightrunner also has one
    Planesense has one (18 months for FOs,$18000, pro rated)
    a lot of Turbo prop air ambulance operators have one (AMRG definitely does, for example. They do not pro rate till after the first 6 months)
    I believe Tradewinds aviation and Boutique air have them (not sure about the terms and conditions)


    As of now the only company I know that does not have one is Mountain Air Cargo. I will go in and negotiate the one thing that I cant deal with and if they agree to my terms I may have to bite the bullet. Either this or another who knows how many weeks/months looking for a job. If you really don't think I should sign the training contract, I agree but it would be much appreciated if you could suggest an out (like, who would be interested in hiring someone with 1400 TT and all 135 PIC minimum met, except for being short of night time by 50 hours). I do not have a CFI rating.

    Thanks
     
  12. NickH

    NickH Dank Meme

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    Not surprised to hear AMRG has a contract now. Their turnover has been... Spectacular...
     
  13. flyinghedgehog

    flyinghedgehog Well-Known Member

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    I would not mind spending at least a year with whoever fronts my training. The only reasons I would not stay is if the operation is shady or doing something illegal like the 24/7 rolling rest period deal. That is the only reason I am wary of contract, actually. I don't want to be in situations where I literally have to chew my leg off to stay alive or to keep my certificate intact. If you don't bend any airplane that would be fine, but if you do and there is an investigation you will most likely be thrown under the bus.
     
  14. MidlifeFlyer

    MidlifeFlyer Well-Known Member

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    Not having specifically to do with training contracts, but this aspect of Part 135 - operators pushing for activities that may result in FAR deviations, but the pilots getting the certificate action when they occur - was a concern shared with me by an FAA attorney over dinner a few years ago.
     
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  15. flyinghedgehog

    flyinghedgehog Well-Known Member

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    Wonder why operators do not get their air carrier permit/certificate action??? Because they've got bucks?
     
  16. MidlifeFlyer

    MidlifeFlyer Well-Known Member

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    It's not the bucks. The more closely accurate cynicism is, it's the low-hanging fruit.

    It's easy to prove a pilot deviation; much harder to prove the operator told them to. Not impossible, but more difficult. If there was a lot of similar deviations from a particular operator, it would be worth the allocation of resources.
     
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  17. Itchy

    Itchy Well-Known Member

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    I hope life never gets so bad that I feel I would have to sign a P.O.S. like that.

    If they need a quick 10 grand, and are fat on pilots, they could fire you for using too much salt on your fries, and ask for the cash?
     
  18. gotWXdagain

    gotWXdagain Highly Visible Member

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    Pretty much.
     
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  19. BigZ

    BigZ Well-Known Member

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    Declined an offer last week from a different company. That promissory note basically said that $ is due if you leave, not if you're let go. Prorated 12mo, but a new 12mo one every sim ride. With these guys it was also a part of their agreement with the owners of the managed airplanes, so not something that can be easily waived.
     
  20. averettpilot

    averettpilot Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a company I worked for....for two months:/
     

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