Nav Stations

determined2fly

Well-Known Member
I heard from a colleague of mine that that Vors will not be restored to operating condition once they break down in a move to push forward with Nexgen...I thought was far fetched to be happening so soon...anyone hear the same thing? Any bulletins out there in regards to this?
 

Houston

Well-Known Member
The FAA has wanted to pull the plug on all kinds of ground based systems for many years. It's a budget decision. The budget for ground based systems comes out of the FAA's money. The budget for GPS comes out of DoD money.
 

Mike H

Well-Known Member
NDBs have been going away for a long time and the 4-course A-N radio navigaion was replaced by VORs. No reason to think the out dated VOR system cant or shouldn't be replaced. No reason to think something better won't replace GPS someday.
 

rframe

pǝʇɹǝʌuı
I'd be happy if they'd just fix our RCO which has been INOP for a lonnng time and it's the only way to contact FSS for 200 miles from the air in one direction. Might not seem like a big deal to a lot of people, but when you're heading into the mountains in a single where nobody will find you unless you tell them where to look, it's nice to be able to update a plan or get weather in a pinch before you lose all COM.
 

JordanD

Honorary Member
The VOR near SDF that's used for flight training and a lot of the arrivals into several of the local airports got swept away by a tornado in March. Supposedly the FAA has no intent to rebuild it. I find it kind of funny that it's still on all the charts though.
 

TwoTwoLeft

o- - - - - - -l
I like to use the single engine turbo prop analogy when describing GPS. Great capability, ease of use and proven reliability. But when it fails, you really can be hosed....

Ground-based NAV still provides great reliability & utility. I could see the en-route portions being phased out, but there will still be a need for VOR, ILS/LOC approaches for a while.
 

Houston

Well-Known Member
LOL, you guys are showing your age
If you want a real age related navigational question, ask why the three lights on many marker beacon receivers are labeled A M and O instead of I M and O to represent the Inner, Middle, and Outer Markers respectively.
 

Autothrust Blue

"...I know bait when I see it..."
If you want a real age related navigational question, ask why the three lights on many marker beacon receivers are labeled A M and O instead of I M and O to represent the Inner, Middle, and Outer Markers respectively.
*annoyed*

I'm 25, and I know that.

NDBs have been going away for a long time and the 4-course A-N radio navigaion was replaced by VORs. No reason to think the out dated VOR system cant or shouldn't be replaced. No reason to think something better won't replace GPS someday.
Eh...unless you come up with something equally simple and reliable (and as difficult to globally jam), I'd say not yet.

I have similar views about ATC sites getting rid of primary radar. I think that it is, as yet, a bad idea, because relying on the participation of the aircraft in the system has real dependability and security issues.
The VOR near SDF that's used for flight training and a lot of the arrivals into several of the local airports got swept away by a tornado in March. Supposedly the FAA has no intent to rebuild it. I find it kind of funny that it's still on all the charts though.
I'm a "free flight" skeptic. I don't believe it will adequately work (although I welcome demonstrations to the contrary), and so I think we'll still have airways, and they'll be routed over the places the VORs once were. Much like the arrivals are still routed over that VOR's spot (with RNAV instead of with the actual VOR signal).
 

FlyingScot

Spanish Proficient
I think aircraft cockpits could benefit from the addition of more teak.

Not that I don't enjoy flying as a job, the jury is still out on the career aspect of it, if I made a lot more money I would even do it as a hobby, but sailing is my true passion. I had moved to the coast to study sailing and get my captains rating, when I found Rod Machados book, took an intro flight lesson, the rest is history.

I recently wanted to get my ASA ratings to charter larger boats. I was inquiring on a sailing forum about the navigation course and asked if the course covers "radio navigation" to which the sailors replied "Huh?" When I learned so sail Loran was still around, and came in awful handy in the fog.

A majority of my flying is in Mexico, where there are no GPS approaches, not that I have an approach certified GPS anyways. There are also Jet routes that the VORs are so far apart that you either need a GPS to follow them or ded reckon between the stations. I have had to shoot an NDB approach into Ensenada a few times. I have even shot a few NDB into Sun Valley a few years ago before Ameriflight splurged for GPSs in some of their planes.

I for one will be sad to see the ground nav aids go. I think it will create a generation of magenta line flying, MFD watching, situational awareness lacking (without GPS) Pilots. I know this is how it is done in the big planes already but most of the pilots a generation or so ago, spent some time in a /A plane and had to ded reckon at least once to get their PPL and had to navigate using a VOR and an airway.

If the removing of ground based stations occur, the future will be two GPS cockpits where you back up situational awareness by looking at the other moving map? If I recall (maybe 135 only) you can't have a GPS approach as your sole approach at your alternate. Does that mean in a future world with only GPS nav available, all alternates will have to be in Mexico?
 

GX

Well-Known Member
The shutdown of the GPS system due to acts of an unfriendly country, failure to launch replacement satellites on schedule, something akin to LightSquared, or any number of other scenarios.
:tinfoil:



SORRY! Just HAD to do it.... :D
 

rd757

Well-Known Member
LAN VOR has been out of service for over a year... and they still have it NOTAM'd and the tower still puts it on the ATIS every time. We get it... just delete it from the system so I don't have to read the NOTAM about it every time I fly. Also... I had an AFSS briefer tell one of my students that he saw a meteor the other morning on his drive into work and he had hoped it was actually GPS satellite #24 finally burning up.
 

Houston

Well-Known Member
LAN VOR has been out of service for over a year... and they still have it NOTAM'd and the tower still puts it on the ATIS every time. We get it... just delete it from the system so I don't have to read the NOTAM about it every time I fly. Also... I had an AFSS briefer tell one of my students that he saw a meteor the other morning on his drive into work and he had hoped it was actually GPS satellite #24 finally burning up.
Well, remember, if a Congressman can land on a runway painted with an X and full of men and equipment and blame it on not getting a NOTAM, the FAA isn't about to not publish a NOTAM about something a pilot cannot see.
 

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
LAN VOR has been out of service for over a year... and they still have it NOTAM'd and the tower still puts it on the ATIS every time. We get it... just delete it from the system so I don't have to read the NOTAM about it every time I fly. Also... I had an AFSS briefer tell one of my students that he saw a meteor the other morning on his drive into work and he had hoped it was actually GPS satellite #24 finally burning up.

They're just not aware that you're the only person that ever uses that airport, I suppose. ;)
 
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