My Opinion on Light Jets

CK

Well-Known Member
Personanlly I think that the idea is good, but the outcome will be bad. These new jets will end up doing the same thing the V-tail bonanza's, P210, and Malibus did. People with a some money but not a lot of time will go out and buy one of these jets and end up killing them selfs. Think about the same thing happend with P210's. What I think will happen is that a lot 400 hour pilot with a M/E rating will go out and purchase these aircraft. Now below 10,000 feet speed is limited to 250 knots so these aircraft will be just as fast as Lears on a majoraty of the flying. Do you think a 400 hour pilot could fly a lear. You might be thinking yeah but what if this airplane is flown buy a Proffesional pilot or in a corporate flight department. If the owner buys one of these jets he is obviously looking for the cheap way out of a new jet or he wants to fly it himself. I can tell you from experience that no CEO or Executive will want to cram them selfs into a little jet like the Eclipes. I would like to hear your opinion on the jets be them good or bad.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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Personanlly I think that the idea is good, but the outcome will be bad. These new jets will end up doing the same thing the V-tail bonanza's, P210, and Malibus did. People with a some money but not a lot of time will go out and buy one of these jets and end up killing them selfs. Think about the same thing happend with P210's. What I think will happen is that a lot 400 hour pilot with a M/E rating will go out and purchase these aircraft. Now below 10,000 feet speed is limited to 250 knots so these aircraft will be just as fast as Lears on a majoraty of the flying. Do you think a 400 hour pilot could fly a lear. You might be thinking yeah but what if this airplane is flown buy a Proffesional pilot or in a corporate flight department. If the owner buys one of these jets he is obviously looking for the cheap way out of a new jet or he wants to fly it himself. I can tell you from experience that no CEO or Executive will want to cram them selfs into a little jet like the Eclipes. I would like to hear your opinion on the jets be them good or bad.



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Nothing wrong with the P210, Malibu, and Bonanza aircraft. It's the pilots that kill themselves, not the planes themselves. And I'm sure with the right training, a 200 hour pilot could fly a Citation with no problem. Keep in mind that many of the T-38s you see tooling around in the Flight Levels at Mach 0.9 are being flown by a USAF student pilot with @150 TT.

Now, if someone pulls a [former Yankees catcher] Thurmon Munson, and gets themselves killed tooling around in a jet they had the money to buy, but no experience to handle; that's no one's fault but their own.
 

CK

Well-Known Member
Yeah but the airforce trains there pilots a lot different then civilian instructors. I personally doubt a 200 hour pilot could handle a citation I know there called slotations or almost jets but there still very hard to fly especially single pilot. Remember the airforce trains it's pilots to fly jets. When you get your ratings in normal flight schools your flying slower airplanes for your first couple hundred hours so you get used to having plenty of time to stay ahead of the airplane. Airforce pilots learn to fly then they get into jets after 70 hours so they don't develope bad habbits. Read the article in AOPA magizine of June I think and you'll see what I mean, but you do make a good point.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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. Read the article in AOPA magizine of June I think and you'll see what I mean, but you do make a good point.

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Yeah, I'll have to check on how the USAF trains it's pilots.......
 

CK

Well-Known Member
Yeah after 70 hours there in the Beechjet learning to fly jets. There arn't very many ppl who do that. I'm very lucky and get to fly a citation with my mom after 100 hours, but sadly not many corporate flight departments allow that nowa days
. Like a 14 year old is going to do something.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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Yeah after 70 hours there in the Beechjet learning to fly jets.

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If they go the Tanker-Transport route.
 

Mike Lewis

Shadow Administrator
Staff member
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Like a 14 year old is going to do something.

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On March 23, 1994, an Aeroflot Airbus A310 with 75 passengers was cruising from Moscow to Hong Kong, approaching Novokuznetsk, Russia at 33,000 feet. The captain's daughter entered the cockpit. The captain let her sit in the left-hand seat while he demonstrated some autopilot features. She got up and then the captain's son took the seat. The son asked if he could handle the yoke. He then turned the yoke slightly and held it in that position for a few seconds before returning the yoke to the neutral position. The captain then demonstrated the same features as he did to his daughter and ended by using the autopilot to bring the aircraft back on course. As the autopilot attempted to level the aircraft at its programmed heading, it came in conflict with the son's inputs on the yoke. As a result the torque limiter soon disconnected the autopilot inputs from the ailerons, releasing the aircraft into a sharp bank. The captain told the copilot to take control while he got back in the left seat, fighting a 5 G load. The seat of the copilot was fully aft, so it took him a few extra seconds to get to the yoke. Unfortunately by this time the plane had entered an unrecoverable spin and hit the ground 2 minutes later.

From Weird Aviation Accidents
 

mikek123

Well-Known Member
I think the insurance requirements for the new light jets are going to help keep some unqualified people from purchasing it and others from flying it single pilot. For those that have the money and feel the need to buy one and end up killing themselves, lets just hope they are the only ones on board when they go down.
 

tonyw

Well-Known Member
There are always going to be people who buy too much airplane for them to handle. If they go out and kill themselves in that airplane, it is their own fault.
 

MissedApproach

Well-Known Member
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Keep in mind that many of the T-38s you see tooling around in the Flight Levels at Mach 0.9 are being flown by a USAF student pilot with @150 TT.

[/ QUOTE ]Hey Mike, do you know how large an operation they run out there at IWA? Literally every time I've been down there T-38's have been buzzing around. Are there actually any AF students that live out there?
 

MissedApproach

Well-Known Member
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Not as big as they used to!


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No kidding, I'm moving out there in about a week and its pretty interesting what they've done with everything. For example, the officers club is our student union building and the full bar has been converted to a sandwich bar. (doh!)
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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Hey Mike, do you know how large an operation they run out there at IWA? Literally every time I've been down there T-38's have been buzzing around. Are there actually any AF students that live out there?

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Boeing has the contract at IWA to convert the T-38A to T-38C with glass cockpit. The 38s you see flying out there are all test flights by Boeing pilots.

Now the A-4s that are out there are another story.
 

Eagle

New Member
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I'm very lucky and get to fly a citation with my mom after 100 hours

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I personally doubt a 200 hour pilot could handle a citation

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Wow you must in fact be one of those super kids, able to fly a citation with only 100 hrs.

What was that kid's name who splattered all over Colorado or someplace a few years back? trying to set a record? she was a super kid pilot as well, right?

Anyway, a CE-500 series aircraft is BY FAR the easiest jet airplane to fly. it flies like a heavy C-182.

So what don't you hop off mommie's lap and tell us some more about all your aviation expertise, maybe we can learn something.
 

CK

Well-Known Member
You may think the citation's is easy to fly because you have thousands of hours right. I'm just saying that there arn't many pilots who can get out of a saratoga and fly fly one by them selfs. I think that girl you were talking about took off in a thunderstorm or did some thing really stupid that the instructor said would be alright. It's not how hard or easy the jet is to fly it's how fast stuff happens when you have an emergency. Say you loose and engine one day when your auto pilots busted and the weather is a minimums. The pilot has a hell of a lot to do in a short time. Got to get out the plate and fly it at the same time. I have a hard enough time flying on one engine in VMC.
 

Eagle

New Member
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You may think the citation's is easy to fly because you have thousands of hours right.

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Wrong, I think it is easy to fly because it is easy to fly.
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I'm just saying that there arn't many pilots who can get out of a saratoga and fly fly one by them selfs.

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I see…. but you can at 14 years old, and others can’t. Got it.
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I think that girl you were talking about took off in a thunderstorm or did some thing really stupid that the instructor said would be alright.

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Sorta like when you sit on your mommies lap and do as she says? Hope she isn’t stupid (assuming putting a pre-pubescent teenager in the front of airplane he is not rated to fly is not a valid display of her intellect, only her judgment )
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It's not how hard or easy the jet is to fly it's how fast stuff happens when you have an emergency.

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You are the one who claimed it was hard, I corrected you. Things don’t happen fast as a rule, if you are maintaining a proper cockpit scan, there will be plenty of indications of the impending problem.. But you knew that already.. right?
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Say you loose and engine one day when your auto pilots busted and the weather is a minimums.

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Ok…

"you loose and engine one day when your auto pilots busted and the weather is a minimums."

There I said it…(well wrote it anyway.)
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The pilot has a hell of a lot to do in a short time. Got to get out the plate and fly it at the same time. I have a hard enough time flying on one engine in VMC.

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well if the pilot doesn’t have the approach plate out before he takes off he (she) pretty much deserves to splat. A Citation can fly a long long way with one engine out, Plus, using the trim you don’t need the auto pilot to fly the airplane, you can trip it out and it will free up both hands to do whatever you like. Like reach back and pour a cup of coffee…

But you knew that as well.

The 500 series that are certified single pilot, are done so for a reason. Unskilled pilot, non current pilots and total boneheads with huge egos ( or teenagers) are going to kill themselves and the people in the back.
 

CK

Well-Known Member
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I see…. but you can at 14 years old, and others can’t. Got it.
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You musta misunderstood me. I couldn't fly that citation without another pilot even if it was legal. If your 500 miles from the airport you wanna land at are you really going to fly that far on one engine. And if its stupid for a CFIIME to put some one infront of an airplane there not rated in how are you supposed to get your multi. You probaly think the Citation is easy to fly because your comparing it to a Learjet not a 172.
 

John_Jones

New Member
Hey I hate to be the @$$ in this conversation but Eagles right man. Look at you're stuff a little closer man, not doubting you but you're points arent exactly valid.
 
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