Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?'s

JEP

Malko In Charge
Staff member
Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?\'s

Here are the prelim NTSB reports regarding a recent midair in R.I.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20031120X01934&key=1
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20031120X01934&key=2

I am a fairly low time PPL now pursuing my instrument rating and eventually my commercial ticket. After reading this I just have a couple of questions. If you are approaching a runway and notice a plane that appears it is about to pull onto the runway and takeoff why would you not go around at that time? I am not trying to second guess the pilots, but just trying to understand the thought process of the pilots involved . It appears that the two CFI's pulled onto the runway while another plane was on final approach to the apt. According to the two NTSB reports this is what I was able to gather:

The Piper approached the field and noticed a plane getting ready to depart. The pilot stated that he did not hear any transmission on the CTAF regarding the the departure. I cannot understand why you would attempt to land when noticing the aircraft.

The Cessna with two CFI's on board pulled onto the and RW and departed when another plane was on a very short final approach. When the Cessna departed it hit the bottom of the Piper. Why?

Again, I am not trying to second guess the piltos, but trying to understand their thought processes. That is the reason I read these NTSB reports on a daily basis. I try to gether any information possible and try to learn from them so that in the event I encounter a similar situation, I can respond accordingly.

Also, I believe that all communications towered airports are recorded. Is this the case on the various CTAF frequencies that are out there?

Any information would be appreciated.
 

JDMcFly

New Member
Re: Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?\'s

"I am not trying to second guess the pilots"

Maybe you should, there are some cases where that isn't 'evil', as in some accidents we have had earlier on this forum.

But... some accidents are just that.. pilot error...

But... Who knows?
 

Heath

Well-Known Member
Re: Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?\'s

Well, I'd have to agree with you. It appears the CFI's in the Cessna made some HUGE blunders by A) not announcing their intentions on the CTAF (on the wrong frequency maybe?), and B) not visually clearing the airspace before entering the runway, something I was taught to ALWAYS do even though you've done the radio thing. But, the piper clearly saw them go onto the runway and should have immediately instituted a go-around, turned from their flight path, and called out again on CTAF to alert them of his location. But its hard to say how quickly all that developed, too. And, to me anyway, the primary fault lies with the Cessna as they should have had no trouble spotting a piper on final in visual conditions.

Just my opinion, though.
 

shooter13

New Member
Re: Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?\'s

Well, I only read the first part but he the pilot of the piper said he saw a plane getting ready to go on the runway. Maybe he thought they were holding short and were waiting on him to land before they took the runway. Just a thought.
 

JDMcFly

New Member
Re: Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?\'s

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I only read the first part but he the pilot of the piper said he saw a plane getting ready to go on the runway. Maybe he thought they were holding short and were waiting on him to land before they took the runway. Just a thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assumptions can kill you, eh? That's a very dangerous thing for a pilot to be thinking in uncontrolled space with no contact between the aircraft.
 

JEP

Malko In Charge
Staff member
Re: Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?\'s

My thoughts exactly. If there was the slightest chance that I THOUGHT he migh be taking off. Time to go-around.

Just to follow up on my original questions, are the radio communications on a CTAF recorded anywhere as they are at a Control Tower?
 

davetheflyer

New Member
Re: Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?\'s

[ QUOTE ]
The Cessna with two CFI's on board pulled onto the and RW and departed when another plane was on a very short final approach. When the Cessna departed it hit the bottom of the Piper. Why?



[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like a classic high wing - low wing collision. It seems like a good lesson in not rushing to take off in front of landing traffic (remember right-of-way rules).

I could jump to a conclusion here since the report doesn't mention the pilots experience level and say that two CFIs flying together might be low time and young as well. Statistics show that pilots are most dangerous and reckless when they have between about 100 and 500 hours. Low time CFIs are likely to young as well with a sense of invincibility. Of course, all that is total and baseless speculation.
 

Heath

Well-Known Member
Re: Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?\'s

[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts exactly. If there was the slightest chance that I THOUGHT he migh be taking off. Time to go-around.

Just to follow up on my original questions, are the radio communications on a CTAF recorded anywhere as they are at a Control Tower?

[/ QUOTE ]

NOPE! You're on your own out in the wild blue yonder!
 

JEP

Malko In Charge
Staff member
Re: Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?\'s

here is a link with more info:
http://www.turnto10.com/news/2641359/detail.html

info:
piper was a 20 yr old taking his grandparents for a spin.

cessna:
Both men aboard the Cessna died. Hardy Franklin Lebel, 65, of Westerly, and Peter Budd Coleman, 58, of South Kingstown, were both flight instructors
----------
News Channel 10's Kelley McGee reported the men were pilots with decades of experience. Both had an air transport pilot rating, which qualifies them to fly planes as large as a Boeing 747. Lebel was chief pilot for New England Airlines.
----------------------------
even scarier that this happened with pilots that had this much experience,
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
Re: Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?\'s

[ QUOTE ]
Both had an air transport pilot rating, which qualifies them to fly planes as large as a Boeing 747.

[/ QUOTE ]

The news sooooo over-simplifies things. The ATP has nothing to do with his qualifications to fly something as large as a 747.....
 

JEP

Malko In Charge
Staff member
Re: Midair In Rhode Island - NTSB Rpt and ?\'s

My thoughts exactly. There are plenty of ATP rated pilots that are not qualified to fly a 747.
 
Top