Medevac Navajo Crash Alaska

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
I.. um... no.
Yes, my brother... granted, that's bottom-feeder 135 stuff, but it really is THAT bad out there these days. And, these days, who the hell knows what a bottom feeder is anymore. Just the other day, I had to explain to the mgt of a 135 why I couldn't do a night IAP into Aspen.

Here's a song. In this song, replace Doctor with FAA... and Son with 135.
 
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Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
Well, that Medevac operator got their start trying to pick up Haines and Skagway flights that the legitimate operators out of Juneau turned down. In a steam gauge Navajo. I thought maybe with turning over the aviation side to someone else things had gotten better, but it appears not.
 
Yeah, but did he KNOW he was doing that?

The problem these days is newbs. The Chiefs are now more critical than ever. The chiefs really have to act right by their inexperienced crews and be valuable mentors to those crews. Yes, that is a lot to ask. Yes, that is an inordinate responsibility. But, yes, that is a real thing these days.

Another problem these days in Alaska, and lots of other places is that oft-times, the leadership is almost as inexperienced as many of the crews. Hell, the chief at a well known Alaska 121 flew into the side of a mountain... completely unnecessarily. In that case, he was not inexperienced, just stoopid. But once the wreckage is found, what the hell is the difference???
Anecdotally it seems most of the accidents the last 10 years have been by experienced pilots.
 
I don’t. The Medevacs I turn down all fade into obscurity, but the ones I took and probably shouldn’t have stay burned in my brain.
I get that, I almost did a flight a couple weeks ago when we iced up taxiing out to the runway. It literally came from nowhere. Wx was nice as I drove out to the airport, then it was 1000ovc, then it was IFR, then we were a popsicle. I learned a lot that night. Patient ended up being fine and didn’t need a Medevac. I still don’t like to say no, but not enough to second guess my decision making.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
I get that, I almost did a flight a couple weeks ago when we iced up taxiing out to the runway. It literally came from nowhere. Wx was nice as I drove out to the airport, then it was 1000ovc, then it was IFR, then we were a popsicle. I learned a lot that night. Patient ended up being fine and didn’t need a Medevac. I still don’t like to say no, but not enough to second guess my decision making.
Isn’t it funny how often you weather hold for hours and hours and when you finally get a window, the clinic/hospital has decided to hang onto the patient? I love the job but the whole business just makes me shake my head sometimes.
 

Bob Ridpath

Pit Bull love
Anecdotally it seems most of the accidents the last 10 years have been by experienced pilots.
Experience can breed contempt across many disciplines. “Done it before; can do it again.”

Which works, until it doesn’t.

Every flight, every traffic stop, every car fire, is routine until the last one when things go badly “south.”

Complacency, in the end, finally kills.
 

Boris Badenov

Someone should definitely do *something*, Captain!
I probably took a few I shouldn't have. Maybe a little different because it was always kids. Ugh, kids. I hate the little f'ers socially, but I'm a mammal, so hard-wired to jump in there and kill myself and everyone else trying to save the little poops, so they can grow up to be the useless screws they were predestined to be. Go get the little bastards so they don't die and can raid my social security and vote for me to be gassed because I told a racist joke when I was 12 and didn't even know what "race" was. Hey, why is there this giant shepard's crook pulling me off the stage?
 

Bob Ridpath

Pit Bull love
Is AK different from the lower 48, in terms of accepting a call?

Ancient history now for me, but we’d often request a chopper for certain kinds of calls. Many times even “standbys” were refused due to weather (or whatever).

Often times the request for a helicopter was idiotic in the extreme. Danbury Hospital (or others) was a 15 minute drive once extrication (or other needed EMS stuff) was done. Chopper ETA was 20 minutes out of Jersey (and often less). If directed, we would request a standby, and there would be an “auto launch,” often cancelled once BLS/ALS arrived on scene.

It was our understanding in the office (and not questioned) that ANY crew member could decline a flight for pretty much any reason once the request was made.

Is that region or company specific?

BLS/ALS/Medivac in that order, and Medivac for cases in the extreme.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
Is AK different from the lower 48, in terms of accepting a call?

Ancient history now for me, but we’d often request a chopper for certain kinds of calls. Many times even “standbys” were refused due to weather (or whatever).

Often times the request for a helicopter was idiotic in the extreme. Danbury Hospital (or others) was a 15 minute drive once extrication (or other needed EMS stuff) was done. Chopper ETA was 20 minutes out of Jersey (and often less). If directed, we would request a standby, and there would be an “auto launch,” often cancelled once BLS/ALS arrived on scene.

It was our understanding in the office (and not questioned) that ANY crew member could decline a flight for pretty much any reason once the request was made.

Is that region or company specific?

BLS/ALS/Medivac in that order, and Medivac for cases in the extreme.
The reputable operations are like that. Without getting into the nitty gritty, this was not a reputable operator. I thought they would be better with the aviation operation side out of their hands but it appears they found a vendor willing to go along.
 

Boris Badenov

Someone should definitely do *something*, Captain!
Often times the request for a helicopter was idiotic in the extreme.
Can't speak to AK, but when I was wearing the superman pajamas, a solid 75% of the calls were obviously because some attending at the outstation didn't want to get sued when junior croaked it unexpectedly on the totally reasonable van ride. The whole system is a mess, and not the fun kind.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
Can't speak to AK, but when I was wearing the superman pajamas, a solid 75% of the calls were obviously because some attending at the outstation didn't want to get sued when junior croaked it unexpectedly on the totally reasonable van ride. The whole system is a mess, and not the fun kind.
Oh even here with limited medical facilities in even some of the bigger towns we’re still pretty much the 20-60-20 rule. 20% of calls are a waste of dead dinos and should have just hopped on commercial, 20% need to go and they need to go NOW, and the other 60% are a sliding scale somewhere between the two extremes.
 

Boris Badenov

Someone should definitely do *something*, Captain!
I sleep ok based on the 20% that needed to "go NOW", as you eloquently put it. Although I think in my case it might be more like 10%. But I have a great big bone to pick with our supposedly free-market medical system, based on the other 90%. As I'm sure you would understand.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
I sleep ok based on the 20% that needed to "go NOW", as you eloquently put it. Although I think in my case it might be more like 10%. But I have a great big bone to pick with our supposedly free-market medical system, based on the other 90%. As I'm sure you would understand.
It’s not my idea, I stumbled across it here.
As the article says if you care to skim, it’s not based on factual data but it feels about right.

Edit: rumor is the patient in this particular accident that we are discussing ended up going by ground amberlamps.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
It’s not my idea, I stumbled across it here.
As the article says if you care to skim, it’s not based on factual data but it feels about right.

Edit: rumor is the patient in this particular accident that we are discussing ended up going by ground amberlamps.
The ktuu article says guardian got them in the morning after guardian and lifemed put the flight on wx hold.
 

JusticeAK

Well-Known Member
I flew a handful of flights with Glen, he was a very good instructor and a top notch individual. But i guess we can finally put an idiom to rest. Yes there is "old and bold" pilots. Glen Morthorpe was 75. RIP
 

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
Anecdotally it seems most of the accidents the last 10 years have been by experienced pilots.
Perhaps, but still, that all depends on how one defines "experienced".
From the department of redundancy department, I'll say it once more: Hours are not necessarily a proxy for experience. And credits earned are not necessarily a proxy for education received.
 
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