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Masters Degrees and Major Airline Employment

Discussion in 'Airline Pilots' started by zVo, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. thegriffinpages

    thegriffinpages Well-Known Member

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    The MBA is over-rated. No offense (and not saying this is your mindset), but a lot of people get MBAs with the thought that "Gee, I got a Bachelors in something not useful or something I'm not going to do, and now I'm told that I need a Master's. *Light Bulb* I'll get an MBA!".
     
  2. Richman

    Richman Well-Known Member

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    If you're going to stroke an actual check on a post-bachelors degree, go to law school.

    It's the new priesthood, baby!

    Anything STEM is going to require "real" effort, but generally they pay you.
     
    zmiller4 likes this.
  3. surreal1221

    surreal1221 Well-Known Member

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    It is a great program. It was my second graduate degree and I'm glad I waited to get an academic element of aviation until the graduate level. Should you or anyone else currently in the program there want any insight into anything on the horizon, feel free to reach out.
     
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  4. ppragman

    ppragman Direct BOOKE

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    Actually, I'd contest this a little bit.

    While yes, the ability to weld, or do NDT, or lay tile or whatever is probably a solid thing to have to fall back on, and you're probably right about an MBA being by and large useless...the data paints a different picture with regard to masters in something expensive and complicated. Sure, a masters of arts in Anthro (as much as I'd love to do one) likely isn't a solid investment, if you have an undergrad in engineering or math or physics, or comp sci a masters seems to show a pretty decent return on invest, even if you had to pay for it - and many of these sorts of programs are funded by fellowships (if the republicans don't totally foul that up with the tax bill stuff, we'll see how it plays out in practice).

    While welding certs likely will get you money fast, and lost wages due to time spent in training are a real thing - I am inclined to think that the days of 6-figured welders or whatever is over. Up here, where supposedly you can make "a lot of money" the wage of a welder varies wildly between about $45k and $95k - sure, that's a good middle class income, but you'd work for it, you'd be gone just as much as being a pilot, and abuse your body even more.

    In contrast, a masters in logistics or public policy or whatever, sets you in a position where you're working office jobs for $60-$70k around these parts - you could probably pull down around $50k out of the gate with just a BS. Do you want to work weekends, and be outside in the rain welding on gas-pipeline stuff? Do you want to have a predictable schedule with "bankers hours" or do you want to be getting double overtime to get a job done in the snow? Both have their appeal, but I wouldn't write off the masters if it's in something that is difficult to find hot-bodies to plug into the machine that is modern office life.
     
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  5. ASpilot2be

    ASpilot2be SF340 CA

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    Out in the weather all the time. The fun thing about industrial trades is getting into unique aspects of whatever that trade is. Like underwater welding.
     
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  6. Eagle421flyer

    Eagle421flyer Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t read all the responses, if it’s free great, if not it’s not worth it, hasn’t helped me much (but at least mine was free).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. Cloud Surfer

    Cloud Surfer All Roads lead to Trantor

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    I agree with this. I want to work at an aviation simulator training center in the future. An aviation safety degree could be employed quite beneficially and positively towards such a goal. The subject-matter dealing with the NTSB and aircraft accident investigation are very intriguing. In the event that I lost my medical, I might have fallbacks just with an aviation safety degree. I am happy that I am doing it - if major airlines like MS degrees, all the better.
     
  8. z987k

    z987k TeamANC

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    Lol, you don't need a master's to do Sim training. You don't even need a bachelors. You won't be doing anything safety related there either.
     
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  9. Cloud Surfer

    Cloud Surfer All Roads lead to Trantor

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    Certainly not. However, I feel that some of the courses that I'm taking have given me new insight on concepts and issues which I wouldn't have gained if I hadn't taken these courses at all. I can certainly apply these insights to aviation training if I so choose.

    This is incorrect. Especially if your airline has AQP and an SMS in place. Sim instructors are unwittingly involved with these programs whether they recognize it or not. Other than that, I should hope that a sim instructor does care for safety. Just as a CFI, they have a responsibility to uphold a safety-conscious demeanor.
     
  10. z987k

    z987k TeamANC

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    Ya uh huh.
     
  11. Cptnchia

    Cptnchia Well-Known Member

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    Unless you develop your own course and run your own training center, you’ll just be teaching what the airline or customer has already created. Especially at a 121. You do not deviate from the script that is handed to you.
     
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  12. TUCKnTRUCK

    TUCKnTRUCK That guy

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    Hopefully that script has been developed by people with a firm concept of human factors and aviation safety, utilizing a robust dataset captured from live fleet events, identifying trends in deviation from SOP’s right? :)

    121 training doesn’t get much leeway as a sim IP, 91/135 guys have a fair amount more latitude to work in scenarios. I used to kill people at KASE all the time. The PL21 FMS would give them “good” landing number for the runway, completely ignoring the MA climb gradient requirement. Somewhere below MDA I’d launch a G-IV opposite direction and have it abort the take off stopping in the middle of the runway. Crew would go missed and Blow up a motor. They would realize that the 2% climb gradient the plane gave them only matched the rate of elevation change. When they tried to make the 180 out of the canyon they would lose altitude in the turn and eventually impact the mountain.


    Point wasn’t to show them that I could make them crash, but:

    1) Pl-21 numbers only look at net performance, not required gradient,

    2) it’s pretty easy to get complacent with the FMS

    3) Turning really does hurt your climb performance, more than you would expect.

    Most everybody that saw that scenario liked it as it shows multiple issues and how they can definitely bite you. Nobody complained that it was unrealistic to face opposite direction traffic at KASE, and lose a motor on missed. It was understood that that was the setup but the individual performance and safety issues could be a factor in many more places.

    Of course, one has to understand the performance aspects otherwise they won’t be able to teach the scenario and then it becomes “sim IP just being a Dick”
     
  13. Flying Saluki

    Flying Saluki Well-Known Member

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    It seems to me that getting a Masters degree, then putting that degree to work, is going to yield better results than just getting the degree. By all means pursue higher education, but do so because there's something you want to learn about, not just because you want to check a box. IMHO, YMMV
     
  14. tcco94

    tcco94 Professional GTA V Pilot

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    I've played with this thought in my head. I just can't seem to justify adding on more debt for something that I'm not sure will be a game changer.

    It would be nice for a back up whenever the economy goes back down, though. Still haven't seriously decided yet...

    Is it really worth the debt? I'm not sure how much an online Masters program usually runs though.
     
  15. z987k

    z987k TeamANC

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    This notion that almost every pilot has is just so absurd. If the economy is down it's not just pilots losing jobs. And you expect to walk into whatever it is your masters is in with no real experience at all? A piece of paper that is a license to learn at best. Sound familiar? It'd be like in 2008 if someone was an accomplished engineer and was thinking about getting their commercial multi and only 250 hours, nothing more as a backup for when the economy is down.

    Do we collectively as pilot's really have that loose of a grasp on reality outside our profession? (rhetorical)
     
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  16. ppragman

    ppragman Direct BOOKE

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    Yes - absolutely yes.

    That said, a "backup" might be a solid bet. At least you could start over with your "license to learn" again, if something happened and wouldn't have to go back to school.
     
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  17. Nark

    Nark Well-Known Member

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    A few of us are in a unique boat where we get "paid" to get a graduate degree.
    If you "pay" for a graduate degree, it's overwhelmingly not worth the expenditure of debt to obtain one.

    Certainly a difference.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017 at 08:19
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  18. tcco94

    tcco94 Professional GTA V Pilot

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    I wasn't implying I'd be worthy of some all time job with a piece of paper. Just stating with a degree outside of aviation you'd be more qualified for entry level positions in another field.
     
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  19. Autothrust Blue

    Autothrust Blue "How can you be so obtuse?"

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    Right.
     
  20. Acrofox

    Acrofox All fox

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    Darn skippy.

    It's groupthink. Pilots are one of the worst groups I've ever seen when it comes to groupthink—and woe betide outliers, who will be slathered with imprecations most vile.

    -Fox
     
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