Masters Degrees and Major Airline Employment

#61
Not really. You'll be answering the phone in a call center somewhere if you're lucky.

Better to have a some welding certs, the ability to run commercial wiring or lay tile.

The Master's thing always makes me chuckle. The only Masters/PHDs that are worth anything are the one's they give out wilth full tuition waivers and take 3/7 years full time.
The MBA is over-rated. No offense (and not saying this is your mindset), but a lot of people get MBAs with the thought that "Gee, I got a Bachelors in something not useful or something I'm not going to do, and now I'm told that I need a Master's. *Light Bulb* I'll get an MBA!".
 

Richman

Well-Known Member
#62
If you're going to stroke an actual check on a post-bachelors degree, go to law school.

It's the new priesthood, baby!

Anything STEM is going to require "real" effort, but generally they pay you.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
#63
Me too. Are we both taking classes from the university located at Melbourne?
It is a great program. It was my second graduate degree and I'm glad I waited to get an academic element of aviation until the graduate level. Should you or anyone else currently in the program there want any insight into anything on the horizon, feel free to reach out.
 

ppragman

Direct Yeska
#64
Not really. You'll be answering the phone in a call center somewhere if you're lucky.

Better to have a some welding certs, the ability to run commercial wiring or lay tile.

The Master's thing always makes me chuckle. The only Masters/PHDs that are worth anything are the one's they give out wilth full tuition waivers and take 3/7 years full time.
Actually, I'd contest this a little bit.

While yes, the ability to weld, or do NDT, or lay tile or whatever is probably a solid thing to have to fall back on, and you're probably right about an MBA being by and large useless...the data paints a different picture with regard to masters in something expensive and complicated. Sure, a masters of arts in Anthro (as much as I'd love to do one) likely isn't a solid investment, if you have an undergrad in engineering or math or physics, or comp sci a masters seems to show a pretty decent return on invest, even if you had to pay for it - and many of these sorts of programs are funded by fellowships (if the republicans don't totally foul that up with the tax bill stuff, we'll see how it plays out in practice).

While welding certs likely will get you money fast, and lost wages due to time spent in training are a real thing - I am inclined to think that the days of 6-figured welders or whatever is over. Up here, where supposedly you can make "a lot of money" the wage of a welder varies wildly between about $45k and $95k - sure, that's a good middle class income, but you'd work for it, you'd be gone just as much as being a pilot, and abuse your body even more.

In contrast, a masters in logistics or public policy or whatever, sets you in a position where you're working office jobs for $60-$70k around these parts - you could probably pull down around $50k out of the gate with just a BS. Do you want to work weekends, and be outside in the rain welding on gas-pipeline stuff? Do you want to have a predictable schedule with "bankers hours" or do you want to be getting double overtime to get a job done in the snow? Both have their appeal, but I wouldn't write off the masters if it's in something that is difficult to find hot-bodies to plug into the machine that is modern office life.
 

ASpilot2be

Qbicle seat warmer
#65
In contrast, a masters in logistics or public policy or whatever, sets you in a position where you're working office jobs for $60-$70k around these parts - you could probably pull down around $50k out of the gate with just a BS. Do you want to work weekends, and be outside in the rain welding on gas-pipeline stuff? Do you want to have a predictable schedule with "bankers hours" or do you want to be getting double overtime to get a job done in the snow? Both have their appeal, but I wouldn't write off the masters if it's in something that is difficult to find hot-bodies to plug into the machine that is modern office life.
Out in the weather all the time. The fun thing about industrial trades is getting into unique aspects of whatever that trade is. Like underwater welding.
 

Eagle421flyer

Well-Known Member
#66
I haven’t read all the responses, if it’s free great, if not it’s not worth it, hasn’t helped me much (but at least mine was free).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Cloud Surfer

All Roads lead to Trantor
#67
Working on my MS in Aviation Safety, I could have gotten an MBA but that doesn’t interest me. I working in the training department here and I have a legitimate interest in it. Sure, I’d love to end up moving on faster but I’m not banking on a graduate degree making that happen.

Also, no I’m not just happy with my turkey coupon.
I agree with this. I want to work at an aviation simulator training center in the future. An aviation safety degree could be employed quite beneficially and positively towards such a goal. The subject-matter dealing with the NTSB and aircraft accident investigation are very intriguing. In the event that I lost my medical, I might have fallbacks just with an aviation safety degree. I am happy that I am doing it - if major airlines like MS degrees, all the better.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
#68
I agree with this. I want to work at an aviation simulator training center in the future. An aviation safety degree could be employed quite beneficially and positively towards such a goal. The subject-matter dealing with the NTSB and aircraft accident investigation are very intriguing. In the event that I lost my medical, I might have fallbacks just with an aviation safety degree. I am happy that I am doing it - if major airlines like MS degrees, all the better.
Lol, you don't need a master's to do Sim training. You don't even need a bachelors. You won't be doing anything safety related there either.
 

Cloud Surfer

All Roads lead to Trantor
#69
Lol, you don't need a master's to do Sim training. You don't even need a bachelors.
Certainly not. However, I feel that some of the courses that I'm taking have given me new insight on concepts and issues which I wouldn't have gained if I hadn't taken these courses at all. I can certainly apply these insights to aviation training if I so choose.

You won't be doing anything safety related there either.
This is incorrect. Especially if your airline has AQP and an SMS in place. Sim instructors are unwittingly involved with these programs whether they recognize it or not. Other than that, I should hope that a sim instructor does care for safety. Just as a CFI, they have a responsibility to uphold a safety-conscious demeanor.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
#70
This is incorrect. Especially if your airline has AQP and an SMS in place. Sim instructors are unwittingly involved with these programs whether they recognize it or not. Other than that, I should hope that a sim instructor does care for safety. Just as a CFI, they have a responsibility to uphold a safety-conscious demeanor.
Ya uh huh.
 

Cptnchia

Dissatisfied Customer
#71
Certainly not. However, I feel that some of the courses that I'm taking have given me new insight on concepts and issues which I wouldn't have gained if I hadn't taken these courses at all. I can certainly apply these insights to aviation training if I so choose.



This is incorrect. Especially if your airline has AQP and an SMS in place. Sim instructors are unwittingly involved with these programs whether they recognize it or not. Other than that, I should hope that a sim instructor does care for safety. Just as a CFI, they have a responsibility to uphold a safety-conscious demeanor.
Unless you develop your own course and run your own training center, you’ll just be teaching what the airline or customer has already created. Especially at a 121. You do not deviate from the script that is handed to you.
 
#72
Unless you develop your own course and run your own training center, you’ll just be teaching what the airline or customer has already created. Especially at a 121. You do not deviate from the script that is handed to you.
Hopefully that script has been developed by people with a firm concept of human factors and aviation safety, utilizing a robust dataset captured from live fleet events, identifying trends in deviation from SOP’s right? :)

121 training doesn’t get much leeway as a sim IP, 91/135 guys have a fair amount more latitude to work in scenarios. I used to kill people at KASE all the time. The PL21 FMS would give them “good” landing number for the runway, completely ignoring the MA climb gradient requirement. Somewhere below MDA I’d launch a G-IV opposite direction and have it abort the take off stopping in the middle of the runway. Crew would go missed and Blow up a motor. They would realize that the 2% climb gradient the plane gave them only matched the rate of elevation change. When they tried to make the 180 out of the canyon they would lose altitude in the turn and eventually impact the mountain.


Point wasn’t to show them that I could make them crash, but:

1) Pl-21 numbers only look at net performance, not required gradient,

2) it’s pretty easy to get complacent with the FMS

3) Turning really does hurt your climb performance, more than you would expect.

Most everybody that saw that scenario liked it as it shows multiple issues and how they can definitely bite you. Nobody complained that it was unrealistic to face opposite direction traffic at KASE, and lose a motor on missed. It was understood that that was the setup but the individual performance and safety issues could be a factor in many more places.

Of course, one has to understand the performance aspects otherwise they won’t be able to teach the scenario and then it becomes “sim IP just being a Dick”
 
F

Flying Saluki

Guest
#73
Hey everyone,

How much does a masters degree help in landing an interview with a major airline?

I am a military helicopter pilot headed to the regional airlines next year. I have a Post-9/11 GI Bill I haven't tapped into yet, so starting a masters degree wouldn't cost me any money out of pocket. I'm looking at fully accredited online MBA degrees because (1) it is an added credential as a fallback in case of unemployment or loss of medical and (2) I've heard it may help increase my application in the digital 'stack' via AAL/DAL/UAL's point system.

Can anyone shed light on the value majors/legacies place on a masters degree in the hiring process?

Thanks!
zVo
It seems to me that getting a Masters degree, then putting that degree to work, is going to yield better results than just getting the degree. By all means pursue higher education, but do so because there's something you want to learn about, not just because you want to check a box. IMHO, YMMV
 

tcco94

Professional GTA V Pilot
#74
I've played with this thought in my head. I just can't seem to justify adding on more debt for something that I'm not sure will be a game changer.

It would be nice for a back up whenever the economy goes back down, though. Still haven't seriously decided yet...

Is it really worth the debt? I'm not sure how much an online Masters program usually runs though.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
#75
It would be nice for a back up whenever the economy goes back down, though.
This notion that almost every pilot has is just so absurd. If the economy is down it's not just pilots losing jobs. And you expect to walk into whatever it is your masters is in with no real experience at all? A piece of paper that is a license to learn at best. Sound familiar? It'd be like in 2008 if someone was an accomplished engineer and was thinking about getting their commercial multi and only 250 hours, nothing more as a backup for when the economy is down.

Do we collectively as pilot's really have that loose of a grasp on reality outside our profession? (rhetorical)
 

ppragman

Direct Yeska
#76
This notion that almost every pilot has is just so absurd. If the economy is down it's not just pilots losing jobs. And you expect to walk into whatever it is your masters is in with no real experience at all? A piece of paper that is a license to learn at best. Sound familiar? It'd be like in 2008 if someone was an accomplished engineer and was thinking about getting their commercial multi and only 250 hours, nothing more as a backup for when the economy is down.

Do we collectively as pilot's really have that loose of a grasp on reality outside our profession? (rhetorical)
Yes - absolutely yes.

That said, a "backup" might be a solid bet. At least you could start over with your "license to learn" again, if something happened and wouldn't have to go back to school.
 
#77
A few of us are in a unique boat where we get "paid" to get a graduate degree.
If you "pay" for a graduate degree, it's overwhelmingly not worth the expenditure of debt to obtain one.

Certainly a difference.
 
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tcco94

Professional GTA V Pilot
#78
This notion that almost every pilot has is just so absurd. If the economy is down it's not just pilots losing jobs. And you expect to walk into whatever it is your masters is in with no real experience at all? A piece of paper that is a license to learn at best. Sound familiar? It'd be like in 2008 if someone was an accomplished engineer and was thinking about getting their commercial multi and only 250 hours, nothing more as a backup for when the economy is down.

Do we collectively as pilot's really have that loose of a grasp on reality outside our profession? (rhetorical)
I wasn't implying I'd be worthy of some all time job with a piece of paper. Just stating with a degree outside of aviation you'd be more qualified for entry level positions in another field.
 
#80
This notion that almost every pilot has is just so absurd. If the economy is down it's not just pilots losing jobs. And you expect to walk into whatever it is your masters is in with no real experience at all? A piece of paper that is a license to learn at best. Sound familiar? It'd be like in 2008 if someone was an accomplished engineer and was thinking about getting their commercial multi and only 250 hours, nothing more as a backup for when the economy is down.
Darn skippy.

Do we collectively as pilot's really have that loose of a grasp on reality outside our profession? (rhetorical)
It's groupthink. Pilots are one of the worst groups I've ever seen when it comes to groupthink—and woe betide outliers, who will be slathered with imprecations most vile.

-Fox
 
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